T Nation

States Show How Not To Fix Health Care

Article from Investors Business Daily.

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=507689

Since the debate over the government takeover of medical care exploded onto the national stage, advocates of market-based, patient-centered reforms have pointed to the failed government health care systems of Canada and the U.K. as examples of what America should not replicate.

And rightfully so. Democrat proposals have duplicated many components of these systems, creating frighteningly similar base lines here to these unsuccessful foreign models of “universal” coverage.

Yet we don’t need to peer over borders and across oceans to find government health care that does not work; indeed, we have examples here in our United States.

Hawaii, Oregon, Massachusetts, Tennessee and Maine have all created some version of government takeover or administration of health care, and all are a mess.

Full Story:
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=507689

Yeah, but THIS time it will be different, don’cha know.

Because Obama is like, really, really smart. His IQ has, like, 4 or 5 digits in it, it’s so high.

And Pelosi and Reid are intellectual giants.

And is if THAT wasn’t enough, Obama has secretly brought in Wile E. Coyote to advise, and he is a super-genius.

While it may usually be true that those that don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and that doing the same thing again and again but expecting a different result is the definition of insanity, that isn’t the case when you have a super-genius coyote in the Brain Trust.

No no no, you obviously don’t understand that socialism only works when it’s a GLOBAL effort. We all have to be forced to do something that according to my theory of human nature will eventually happen anyway…

Yeah.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
<<< And is if THAT wasn’t enough, Obama has secretly brought in Wile E. Coyote to advise, and he is a super-genius. >>>[/quote]

Absolutely MUST be another of Obama’s illustrious influences.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXU9SntbatE
Utterly classic.

The astronomical arrogance of this administration leaves one genuinely awestruck. Yes, everybody else has brought disaster to their charges with this ideology, but that was them. This administration are sooper geniuses whereas all the others couldn’t even pass the entrance exam to kindergarten.

Several threads and hundreds of posts in this forum extolling the magic that socialized healthcare will bring to the people, yet not one word when 5 (of 5) examples of failed state-run are described.

There’s not much that hasn’t been applied in the national iterations of government run healthcare that hasn’t been tried at a state level. I apologize for killing a great emotional argument with ‘facts’. Please, continue to pick up your signs and march for ‘Universal Government Healthcare NOW!’. History be damned.

4 of the 5 states are solidly ‘blue’ states (TN is a swing state), 3 are consistently in the Top 10 States with Highest Tax Burden year after year (HI, ME, MA) and between them represent a pretty broad demographic, so failure can’t really be attributed to population composition. In other words, there’s a pretty good sample.

Gov’t run healthcare: 5 for 5 in FAIL.

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
There’s not much that hasn’t been applied in the national iterations of government run healthcare that hasn’t been tried at a state level. I apologize for killing a great emotional argument with ‘facts’. Please, continue to pick up your signs and march for ‘Universal Government Healthcare NOW!’. History be damned.
[/quote]

You touch upon the main problem I have with the health care proposals. They are at a national level. Why can’t it be handled on a state level?

I’m certain the people in Cali overwhelmingly want it. So why don’t they implement it at a state level? They can’t pretend they aren’t big enough; there are many smaller countries with socialised health care: Australia, New Zealand, Sweden and Canada all come to mind.

I think that any powers not listed in the constitution should be up to the individual states. And if it causes a decrease in costs and an increase in coverage then after a while all the other states will join in.

On the other hand if it is a huge fuck up then the damage is limited to California. To the very people who are demanding change. Which is how it should be.

Lol, it’s quiet in here.

[quote]phaethon wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
There’s not much that hasn’t been applied in the national iterations of government run healthcare that hasn’t been tried at a state level. I apologize for killing a great emotional argument with ‘facts’. Please, continue to pick up your signs and march for ‘Universal Government Healthcare NOW!’. History be damned.

You touch upon the main problem I have with the health care proposals. They are at a national level. Why can’t it be handled on a state level?

I’m certain the people in Cali overwhelmingly want it. So why don’t they implement it at a state level? They can’t pretend they aren’t big enough; there are many smaller countries with socialised health care: Australia, New Zealand, Sweden and Canada all come to mind.

I think that any powers not listed in the constitution should be up to the individual states. And if it causes a decrease in costs and an increase in coverage then after a while all the other states will join in.

On the other hand if it is a huge fuck up then the damage is limited to California. To the very people who are demanding change. Which is how it should be.[/quote]

California is a very loud flashing neon demonstration of government gone to shit even without public healthcare. They can’t afford a jug of surge nevermind universally available healthcare. Which of course is exactly how Obama likes it because they can’t do it without him/US.

During the campaign he quoted the old saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result, but everything they are proposing IS exactly everything we’ve been doing amplified to the 1000th power. All this exploding government intrusion is the logical conclusion of the self destructive path we’ve been on for decades. Obama has simply put the gas pedal to the floor.

Amazing that all these countries have complete failures with healthcare, isn’t it? Especially when so many counties have the perfect solution! I mean, why don’t we all list all of the counties with this “non-failed” systems?

Let’s be honest. The differences here are between “socialism,” which every first-world country has except us here in the US, and capitalism, which we are losing to these damn socialists. Can’t the left just open there eyes? Every other first world country in the world is a FAILURE! We are the ONLY SUCCESS! These leftists have to open their eyes and quick!

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Amazing that all these countries have complete failures with healthcare, isn’t it? Especially when so many counties have the perfect solution! I mean, why don’t we all list all of the counties with this “non-failed” systems?

Let’s be honest. The differences here are between “socialism,” which every first-world country has except us here in the US, and capitalism, which we are losing to these damn socialists. Can’t the left just open there eyes? Every other first world country in the world is a FAILURE! We are the ONLY SUCCESS! These leftists have to open their eyes and quick!

[/quote]

So, you got nothing, then?

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
Amazing that all these countries have complete failures with healthcare, isn’t it? Especially when so many counties have the perfect solution! I mean, why don’t we all list all of the counties with this “non-failed” systems?

Let’s be honest. The differences here are between “socialism,” which every first-world country has except us here in the US, and capitalism, which we are losing to these damn socialists. Can’t the left just open there eyes? Every other first world country in the world is a FAILURE! We are the ONLY SUCCESS! These leftists have to open their eyes and quick!

So, you got nothing, then?
[/quote]

You noticed that, too…huh?

What was your premise again? Try to keep up boys.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Amazing that all these countries have complete failures with healthcare, isn’t it? Especially when so many counties have the perfect solution! I mean, why don’t we all list all of the counties with this “non-failed” systems?

Let’s be honest. The differences here are between “socialism,” which every first-world country has except us here in the US, and capitalism, which we are losing to these damn socialists. Can’t the left just open there eyes? Every other first world country in the world is a FAILURE! We are the ONLY SUCCESS! These leftists have to open their eyes and quick!

[/quote]

Those other countries? They’re tiny, have limited immigration, and we’re (as in the US) paying for a majority of their defence spending. Plus, they sell their goods to US! When we go down the toilet, when our consumption decreases, and when we stop protecting their assess, those programs are fucking screwed!

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
Amazing that all these countries have complete failures with healthcare, isn’t it? Especially when so many counties have the perfect solution! I mean, why don’t we all list all of the counties with this “non-failed” systems?

Let’s be honest. The differences here are between “socialism,” which every first-world country has except us here in the US, and capitalism, which we are losing to these damn socialists. Can’t the left just open there eyes? Every other first world country in the world is a FAILURE! We are the ONLY SUCCESS! These leftists have to open their eyes and quick!

Those other countries? They’re tiny, have limited immigration, and we’re (as in the US) paying for a majority of their defence spending. Plus, they sell their goods to US! When we go down the toilet, when our consumption decreases, and when we stop protecting their assess, those programs are fucking screwed!
[/quote]

This is a positively brilliant point that is almost universally overlooked. For all the crying over US meddling around the world, if it weren’t for our playing global enforcer nobody else, especially Canada, would have the money for half the social bullshit they waste their money on and some of them would no longer exist at all.

You are also correct in that we have been invaded by immigrants, legal or not, since the 60’s, more interested in sponging off our generosity and diluting our culture than becoming productive Americans. England is getting there, but nobody has to contend with this like we do.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
Amazing that all these countries have complete failures with healthcare, isn’t it? Especially when so many counties have the perfect solution! I mean, why don’t we all list all of the counties with this “non-failed” systems?

Let’s be honest. The differences here are between “socialism,” which every first-world country has except us here in the US, and capitalism, which we are losing to these damn socialists. Can’t the left just open there eyes? Every other first world country in the world is a FAILURE! We are the ONLY SUCCESS! These leftists have to open their eyes and quick!

Those other countries? They’re tiny, have limited immigration, and we’re (as in the US) paying for a majority of their defence spending. Plus, they sell their goods to US! When we go down the toilet, when our consumption decreases, and when we stop protecting their assess, those programs are fucking screwed!

This is a positively brilliant point that is almost universally overlooked. For all the crying over US meddling around the world, if it weren’t for our playing global enforcer nobody else, especially Canada, would have the money for half the social bullshit they waste their money on and some of them would no longer exist at all.

You are also correct in that we have been invaded by immigrants, legal or not, since the 60’s, more interested in sponging off our generosity and diluting our culture than becoming productive Americans. England is getting there, but nobody has to contend with this like we do.[/quote]

I just want to say that I have NOTHING against immigrants. Nothing at all. I just wanted to point out that most European nations have relatively little immigration, if not emigration! American’s pool of dependants is expanding at a far greater rate than that of other countries which have currently bankrupt (seriously, their are few that really work WELL within their defined budget boundaries) socialised health insurance programs.

I’m not comfortable with our defense being that we’re a bunch of suckers charging out to here, there, and everywhere, spending money and lives, while other nations reap the reward of our foriegn policy. That’s our own fault.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
I’m not comfortable with our defense being that we’re a bunch of suckers charging out to here, there, and everywhere, spending money and lives, while other nations reap the reward of our foriegn policy. That’s our own fault.[/quote]

It isn’t so much a defence as it is a reality. They ask why America is any different than the other “first world nations,” I answer.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
Amazing that all these countries have complete failures with healthcare, isn’t it? Especially when so many counties have the perfect solution! I mean, why don’t we all list all of the counties with this “non-failed” systems?

Let’s be honest. The differences here are between “socialism,” which every first-world country has except us here in the US, and capitalism, which we are losing to these damn socialists. Can’t the left just open there eyes? Every other first world country in the world is a FAILURE! We are the ONLY SUCCESS! These leftists have to open their eyes and quick!

Those other countries? They’re tiny, have limited immigration, and we’re (as in the US) paying for a majority of their defence spending. Plus, they sell their goods to US! When we go down the toilet, when our consumption decreases, and when we stop protecting their assess, those programs are fucking screwed!

This is a positively brilliant point that is almost universally overlooked. For all the crying over US meddling around the world, if it weren’t for our playing global enforcer nobody else, especially Canada, would have the money for half the social bullshit they waste their money on and some of them would no longer exist at all.

You are also correct in that we have been invaded by immigrants, legal or not, since the 60’s, more interested in sponging off our generosity and diluting our culture than becoming productive Americans. England is getting there, but nobody has to contend with this like we do.

I just want to say that I have NOTHING against immigrants. Nothing at all. I just wanted to point out that most European nations have relatively little immigration, if not emigration! American’s pool of dependants is expanding at a far greater rate than that of other countries which have currently bankrupt (seriously, their are few that really work WELL within their defined budget boundaries) socialised health insurance programs.[/quote]

I have already made clear that I have nothing against immigrants of any ethnic origin from anywhere who come here to be Americans. I have no tolerance for people of any ethnic origin from anywhere who violate our borders illegally or even if they come here legally, who expect my country to become like their country because they’re here. We have multitudes of both. In what other country is it tolerated that people who have sneaked over the border can protest the very nation that they have illegally entered?

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m not comfortable with our defense being that we’re a bunch of suckers charging out to here, there, and everywhere, spending money and lives, while other nations reap the reward of our foriegn policy. That’s our own fault.

It isn’t so much a defence as it is a reality. They ask why America is any different than the other “first world nations,” I answer.[/quote]

No, I don’t mean to imply that’s what you were doing. You’re simply stating a reality. I just cringe when people get all “heck yeah! They can afford it because we’re protecting their asses.” Ok. Stop protecting them.