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Starting with Explosive Strength?

Hi.

Im 18. Im working out for about a year but for most of the time it was rather like some stupid bodybuilding stuff.
Now I know my goals - run as fast as I can, jump as high as I can, and lift as much weight as I can (I know that arent specific goals but I think that right now only what I should worry about is to get stronger). I know that building explosive person is not simple. I heard that explosive strength (and this is what I believe I need) is strength and rate of force development.

So should I even care now about rate of force development or at first I should grind my weak as hell numbers (about: 225 lb deadlift, 165 squat and 135 bench press)?
I was thinking about 2-3 months of only strength training and then try to add some plyos etc. Is it the best think I can do know?

Ok so I was thinking about working out 3 times a week

A
Squat 3x5
Overhead press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5

and B
Squat 3x5
Barbell Row 3x5
Bench Press 3x5

or maybe there are better things to do for me what do you think?

[quote]danio94ns wrote:
So should I even care now about rate of force development or at first I should grind my weak as hell numbers (about: 225 lb deadlift, 165 squat and 135 bench press)?[/quote]
We’re talking about walking before you can run, almost literally. :wink:

You’re definitely not in a place where you need to be concerned with training specifically for explosiveness. The term “rate of force development” is another thing you don’t need to be worried about.

Based on this and your other thread that talked about GPP and SPP, you’re approaching the line of overthinking things. To some extent, you just need to just take a breath, lift consistently, and let things sort themselves out along the way.

What’s your height and weight?

[quote]A
Squat 3x5
Overhead press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5

and B
Squat 3x5
Barbell Row 3x5
Bench Press 3x5[/quote]
"I think rows are in a lot of these spin-offs of my program because people need another exercise off the floor besides deadlifts, but everybody’s afraid to learn the clean. I don’t really understand it, except that, in people’s minds, rows are easier to learn. They look slow, they don’t look as complicated.

I think I did a decent job of explaining the clean in the book, and I think it’s a much better exercise than the barbell row. Because it can’t be done slowly. That’s why we use it. It’s an explosive lift." - Mark Rippetoe.

I saw a pyramid once that explained this perfectly. It had strength as the base of the pyramid.

Does anyone have that?

Here is the Blue Print one.


This one is pretty good too, just not the one I am talking about.

im about 176 cm and 73 kg

i was thinking about rows because of http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/252/plecyluzem.jpg (i dont know how to call it in english). but maybe cleans are also a good way to fix it?

btw i think that when you do rows from the ground it can be pretty fast lift

[quote]JLone wrote:
I saw a pyramid once that explained this perfectly. It had strength as the base of the pyramid.[/quote]
That is pretty cool. If you happen find the other version, try to toss it up somewhere. But… “Lift Heavy Things: Brief, intense sessions of full-body functional movements. 1-3x per week for 7-60 minutes.” ?!? Ha, gotta start somewhere I guess.

[quote]danio94ns wrote:
im about 176 cm and 73 kg[/quote]
5’9" and 160 for my non-metric bros.

Yeah, we just call that “skinny.” :wink: No worries though. I was about the same weight but five inches/13cm taller than you when I started lifting in high school. No one exercise is going to fix that. It’s going to be a combination of consistent lifting and consistent eating.

If you were talking about how your shoulderblades are pointing out a little, again, don’t stress over that just yet. Unless you’ve had a real injury or medical issue, odds are that’ll sort itself out along the way. And even if it doesn’t, we can address it down the road after you’ve started to lay down a general muscular foundation.

Sometimes. But even if it is, think about the range of motion of a row compared to a clean. One is moving the weight just arms length. The other moves it from the ground all the way up to shoulder level.

ok, so

  1. so what about
    A
    squat 3x5
    overhead 3x5
    deadlift 1x5
    B
    clean 3x5
    squat 3x5
    bench 3x5
    ?

  2. should I even care at this moment about corrective stretching and mobility work? i think that i need too.
    i think that I should strech every part of my body because ive got many problems with technique in different exercises like pelvic tilt in squats. also i cant get my elbows up in front squat position and my hips and hamstrings are really tight. there are other like ive got lack of mobility in my right ankle after sprain, tight neck that causes pains of neck and head (i think) or low back pain and couple other. i know that my main goal is to get strength but with new program i also want to get off my problems.

  3. when to start plyos and other speed work? 3 months? i was thinking that summer would be a great time

ps. chris you are awesome, i really appreciate your help
ps 2 sorry for my english ;D

//DOWN Like I said I really appreciate his help but what do you expect from the begginers threads?

I put forward the motion that we should officially anoint Chris Colucci as the patron saint of Patience towards Newbs

[quote]caveman101 wrote:
I put forward the motion that we should officially anoint Chris Colucci as the patron saint of Patience towards Newbs[/quote]

haha, definetely. He has alway’s answered all my noobish silly question’s and even answered some PM’s I sent him when I was to embarassed to post YET AGAIN in this forum.

You’ve got my vote.

[quote]danio94ns wrote:
ok, so

  1. so what about
    A
    squat 3x5
    overhead 3x5
    deadlift 1x5
    B
    clean 3x5
    squat 3x5
    bench 3x5
    ?

  2. should I even care at this moment about corrective stretching and mobility work? i think that i need too.
    i think that I should strech every part of my body because ive got many problems with technique in different exercises like pelvic tilt in squats. also i cant get my elbows up in front squat position and my hips and hamstrings are really tight. there are other like ive got lack of mobility in my right ankle after sprain, tight neck that causes pains of neck and head (i think) or low back pain and couple other. i know that my main goal is to get strength but with new program i also want to get off my problems.

  3. when to start plyos and other speed work? 3 months? i was thinking that summer would be a great time

ps. chris you are awesome, i really appreciate your help
ps 2 sorry for my english ;D

//DOWN Like I said I really appreciate his help but what do you expect from the begginers threads?[/quote]

  1. So, you’re basically going to run Starting Strength?

  2. If you think it’s a problem, it’s nonsense to ignore it.

  3. You add explosive work whenever you’re ready to be explosive. Are you playing a sport or are you generally interested in just being explosive? This will change the timing and “need to” on when to do stuff like this.

Other coaches will disagree, but I feel if you want to be explosive, there’s no reason to avoid sprints and jumps for “down the road.” Do them now as long as they fit into your recovery scheme. Now, things like depth jumps and whatnot are a different animal. But I’d add some sprints. Won’t hurt.

If you can have someone coach you try and do some olympic lifts. I read some study awhile back that tested the average vertical of professional weightlifters, basketball players, football (american version) players, soccer (football)players and a few others and the olympic weightlifters had the highest average vertical at something in the high 30"s (about a meter). I will second the clean, if you can mix in a few different variations oly clean, power clean or hang clean.

When doing front squats you can cross your arms over each other and the bar if the position is too uncomfortable. However, if you just keep practicing them and stretching (esp wrists) the position will come in time.

Stretch more, it might not help all of your problems go away but it will probably help most.

If you want to get fast, run fast. Do sprints!

Where are you from?

[quote]danio94ns wrote:

  1. so what about
    A
    squat 3x5
    overhead 3x5
    deadlift 1x5
    B
    clean 3x5
    squat 3x5
    bench 3x5[/quote]
    Like Anthony said, this is essentially Starting Strength. Change the order of the B Workout to “squat, bench, clean” and you’ve got it. It’s been used before by guys in similar shoes, with solid success.

[quote]2. should I even care at this moment about corrective stretching and mobility work? i think that i need too.
i think that I should strech every part of my body because ive got many problems with technique in different exercises like pelvic tilt in squats. also i cant get my elbows up in front squat position and my hips and hamstrings are really tight. there are other like ive got lack of mobility in my right ankle after sprain, tight neck that causes pains of neck and head (i think) or low back pain and couple other.[/quote]
Like I said, if you’re having issues, then definitely address it. Double-check your other thread from a few weeks ago:


Specifically, re-read the “Practical Guide to GPP” and “Work Capacity” articles I linked to there. They both talk about some ways to improve your mobility through some targeted bodyweight exercises. Pretty much any kind of basic stretching routine also wouldn’t hurt (no pun intended).

Plyos and speed work are, in my mind, slightly different than basic sprints. I’d usually save dedicated plyo work or speed work (in the sense of explosive lifting strength) for later on after you’ve built more of a foundation. But, as I saying in your other thread, it’s fine to start including some “GPP-ish” work like running sprints or other conditioning. Just start of low and slow and progress according to your ability.

[quote]Pinta wrote:

[quote]caveman101 wrote:
I put forward the motion that we should officially anoint Chris Colucci as the patron saint of Patience towards Newbs[/quote]
haha, definetely. He has alway’s answered all my noobish silly question’s and even answered some PM’s I sent him when I was to embarassed to post YET AGAIN in this forum.

You’ve got my vote.[/quote]
Ha, aw shucks, you guys. I’m just trying to help where I can. Thanks.

Although, now I do feel a little bad you mentioning this on the same day I told a dude I wasn’t going to help him anymore.

Guess I can’t accept the nomination in good conscience. Ha.

ok, i want to set some goals to know where im going… what do you think about 3 month goals of 3x/week workout?

Squat - 150 lbs -> 260 lbs
Deadlift - 180 -> 300
Bench Press -> 110 -> 175
Overhead Press - 65 -> 110
Clean - 65 -> 110

How realistic is that? Is it easy to get there in 3 months or rather risky goal?

[quote]danio94ns wrote:
ok, i want to set some goals to know where im going… what do you think about 3 month goals of 3x/week workout?

Squat - 150 lbs -> 260 lbs
Deadlift - 180 -> 300
Bench Press -> 110 -> 175
Overhead Press - 65 -> 110
Clean - 65 -> 110

How realistic is that? Is it easy to get there in 3 months or rather risky goal?[/quote]
If you have working out for a year, even if not extremely serious, and are at your current levels I doubt in 3 months (1/4 of the time you have been working out) you will have a great chance.
You would be squatting 173% of your current max! Similar increases with the others, it might be possible but I have my doubts.
When I started lifting/benching my bench went from 205 to 265 in just over 3 months which is about what you are shooting for but I worked my ass off in bench and my other lifts barely increased.
Good luck either way though.

[quote]danio94ns wrote:
ok, i want to set some goals to know where im going… what do you think about 3 month goals of 3x/week workout?

Squat - 150 lbs -> 260 lbs
Deadlift - 180 -> 300
Bench Press -> 110 -> 175
Overhead Press - 65 -> 110
Clean - 65 -> 110

How realistic is that? Is it easy to get there in 3 months or rather risky goal?[/quote]

not very realistic imo. close to 100% increases on all the lifts cept bench.