My understanding of this is that the bulk of scientific studies on TRT are using IM injections over the last 50+ years, and then a few studies came out over the last few years on SubQ (including one with transgender patients which is on pubmed) and then everyone got excited like it was some “secret” that everyone had been missing because SubQ offers incrementally slower release/lower aromatization/etc. Add to this a popular TRT doc (John Chrisler) who had a 2016 youtube video of him injecting SubQ (easily searchable on google) and also having a 25 year-old body on a ~60 year-old guy so everyone took SubQ as gospel and IM wasn’t in fashion anymore. Maybe I got this history wrong but just trying to put the big picture in context.
I tried SubQ and it flat out sucked, while other guys use it and love it, so BOTH work. Its probably more up to the individual and you will likely have a larger response to other factors like (1) your overall testosterone dosage and (2) your frequency of dosage, rather than your exact method of injections. Until you try both, you won’t know what works best for you.
When I started it was about 370-350 pounds. I was well past 40% body fat.
I’m now at 20% body fat @ 217 pounds of lean muscle on my frame. I’m 272 pounds today (just did an Inbody about 45 minutes ago)
That is about 1 year later.
So yeah, it works. If you get off your proverbial butt and go to the gym, you’ll get massive results. You don’t have to eat like an Olympian IFBB PRO, but clean up your diet a little bit and magic happens.
I think its up to the particular structure of the fat tissue we know fat is not just fat and same everywhere in the body and between different people
Sincr I started TRt due to the crazy appetite the first 3 months I gained 8 kg of muscle of fat and this is the only explanation why sub q stopped working for me - my belly fat changed. My conclusion from this is sub q is too variable and unpredictable. Fortunately in muscle all people report much more stable results so I would choose always predictability over variation
So being that I’m secondary and not primary…you don’t think significant lifestyle changes will help much? I know everyone is different, just trying to explore every option before hopping on for the rest of my life.
I’m 50 lbs overweight if not 60, at 6’4" 270…have a desk job…haven’t exercised or lifted or followed a good diet in about 3 1/2 years (finding out i was gonna be a first time dad…getting everything ready and now being a dad).
If changing all of that could get me to 500-600, then I wouldn’t want to start TRT until I really need it…
Maybe none of that will work and I DO need it…those are the opinions and experiences I need to hear
Here’s my log with pictures. Being overweight will mean you likely won’t feel great on TRT until you drop the weight but you’ll drop it faster provided you are restrictive with your diet and have some semblance of self control along with a halfway decent workout routine. I do Athleanx which is laughable to most but the shit works. I’m where I want to be.
I love the assumptions, rofl. Get off your ass, eat better food choices, and go to the gym.
Yes, I’m 6’2” and I’m a size 52 suit. No I’m not really fat anymore. I’m baggy skin. Yeah, I’m a big guy naturally and if you do an effective program, gains come.
The reason I am questioning your stats (height and lean mass) is that they are the same as Arnold’s when he won a Mr. Olympia.
It’s possible you have better muscle genetics than Arnold. I just think the probability is extremely low.
Post up a picture and we will see if you are at 20%.
Assuming golden era Arnold was about 6-8% BF. I can’t see him being at 5% in his era. He didn’t have shredded glutes or hamstrings that come with sub 5%.
You didn’t read my last few messages. I will be posting up when I hit 15%.
And yes, Arnold was 211 pounds I believe for his first movie role per his contract.
Thank you, everyone loves Arnold, but he was not even remotely a “large” man compared to most. He was the most aesthetic, however, compared to Reg Parks in Hercules, or Lou Ferrigno in the Hulk… he was a runt.
I’ve gained 5 lbs on the cycle mostly fat. Now I’m trying to get to where I was before I started (weight wise). If i could choose I’d go back to how I was before I started it since my priorities just took a 180 (life be that way sometimes).
As far as TRT goes I’m happy where it’s got me with the very minimal effort I put into it. I go hard at the gym for an hour 5-6 days a week but that’s about the extent of it.
Arnold is listed a a 57 in chest. @mistershadow is wearing a 52, which is what I wear, which usually means a 50-52 inch chest. I’m just over 50" chest, but I can’t get into most 50’s. A 33 in waist is also unlikely for señor shadow. Not ripping, I certainly don’t have that waist (And am not shooting for it)
I will NEVER be a 33 waist LOL. I’m actually skin on bone (granted I’m sure there is +/- 3/4") on each side… I’m a 38 waist down from a 50-48 depending on fit. I wear a 38 shorts/jeans now. (Relaxed fit of course or my legs won’t fit).
I MIGHT get into a 36. It’s possible but with my legs I’m not sure… the waist yes, the legs, no.
According to my Inbody report (I figured it out) it looks like my “lean mass” is 217 pounds and my goal to 12% is 18 pounds of fat to lose.
My trainer is of the opinion that only the mirror will tell once I get to 255.
I will say I have been surprised before by people who claim crazy stats and back them up.
@hardartery was saying that Arnold had a 33" waist measured with a soft tape measure at the navel. Almost everyone measures higher at the navel than they do pant size. I wear a 33 pant size, but at my navel I am a bit about 36". Arnold was damn impressive to have his stats.
FWIW, I wouldn’t put too much stock in the InBody scan. They can be terribly inaccurate. IIRC, it was 5-10 point off on me for body fat %. That is so much of a difference, that it isn’t even worth doing IMO.
Oh, it isn’t make it or break it for me, but it is a hell of a benchmark – and a lot more accurate than the 59.99 special from Inevifit
But yeah, I’m a flubbery bag o skin kinda thing but at least I don’t have large pockets. (Big bags) But I’m really empty. Once my skin tightens up in the next few months, I’ll look a lot better.
But I don’t want to hi-jack the OPS thread. I have a thread over in the forum for me.
