This is interesting to me. I don’t really know how to quantify how much GH helps, or lack of GH hurts gains. I suspect my GH production is low based on my IGF-1 being in range, but barely.
Doctors are ignoring the science, desirable healthy testosterone is well above what doctors consider normal, men above 550 ng/dL have a 30% reduced risk of a major cardiovascular event and death by any cause.
Defining “Healthy” Testosterone
A lot of men come to these forums broken, live shitty lifestyles, eat unhealthy and guys think TRT is a cure all.
If someone has brain fog on TRT, it’s because something else isn’t being addressed. If your health is too far down the toilet, no amount of exogenous testosterone is going to fix your problems.
TRT will not work for everyone.
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“If someone has brain fog on TRT, it’s because something else isn’t being addressed. If your health is too far down the toilet, no amount of exogenous testosterone is going to fix your problems.”
This. Sounds harsh, but 100% on point.
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Good question. TRT should not be sought out for aesthetic purposes only.
This doesn’t make any sense. Dad bod equates to higher than normal body fat. A male normal body fat is about 20%. 15-17% is lean by average standards.
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I hate it when there are no pictures.
I think if HGH didn’t help, no one would spend thousands on it for aesthetic purposes. I also think we could argue the counterpoint that if high GH builds muscle, low GH probably hinders it.
I guess what I mean is in the around normal levels, how much does it matter? The pros are using 10-20X the replacement amounts of HGH.
I guess on TRT, does say having top of range GH and IGF-1 make a difference to physique (vs bottom range)?
I’ve also heard of dosing HGH based on anabolic dosages. It may not be much benefit to run 10 iu of HGH if your anabolic use is the equivalent of 500 mg/wk test.
I have a friend that spent $500 a month on supplements haha. They made a very small difference to his physique. Far smaller than going on TRT. Many people will spend lot’s if they think something will help. That doesn’t necessarily mean it will help.
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After 15 years of training and eating well but seeing minimal results, I would say that seeing an improvement in my training (and the results) is a big motivator here. But I’ve also felt fatigued and anxious for awhile and it only seems to get progressively worse. I’d like those issues to improve as well.
So no, I don’t intend to stop TRT if I don’t see an improvement in my training/physique, even though that’s a big impetus for all this. As long as it gives me a general improvement in my quality of life, I’m comfortable (and expecting) to be on this for life. This decision has been a decade in the making.
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I gotta ask…
- how do you train?
- what does “eating well” mean to you?
First of all, it sounds like you’re a legitimate candidate for TRT and from the information you’ve provided I think you’ll probably do well.
Possible red flag- there’s every chance you run into these issues while on TRT. Some report raging libido and erection some report quite the opposite…. One thing’s for sure,nothing is guaranteed. HCG helps libido for me but it comes with its own side effects that you’ll have to work out as you learn how all those drugs affect your own body.
This is one of many protocols. This is TRT in the sense that the Test levels most can yield from injecting 100mg/week are akin to those a healthy man produces naturally. A good dose IMO.
You may decide to indulge in 150mg or 200mg/week these are largely supra-physiological doses in reality if we are comparing them with the typical healthy man producing his own endogenous Test. Your hormones will be pretty elevated on this dose amplified by the almost certain drop in SHBG.
What to expect is a fair question to ask but also what do you want out of it? If you want aesthetics and don’t mind diagnosing and smoothing out side effects as they develop then 200mg could be the ticket. If you feel you just need normal T levels a true replacement dose could sort you out.
Keep in mind, doctors will prescribe various protocols, there’s not really a right or wrong one. Unfortunately it’s often up to the patient to recognise what is and isn’t working then correct this in coordination with your doctor. Using TRT is a journey and lifestyle that can be rewarding if you manage it well. A certain level of knowledge is required to increase the chance of success though. This board is a good place to start. Good luck!
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Impossible to predict for certain, but there is a reason so many men are doing this. Odds are high you will benefit.
Diet and exercise, particularly strength training, will maximize results for TRT.
Not sure I have ever heard anyone complain of that, but there are always outliers,. Usually, if anything, it’s the other way around.
Yes. Keep in mind that the vast majority of guys on TRT get once weekly or bimonthly injections. They are doing just fine. Some are sensitive to the fluctuations and will do twice weekly. Some use twice weekly to mitigate elevated hematocrit, maybe estradiol.
.
As an aside, every guy I’ve seen that tried daily injections went back to once or twice weekly. Every one. Not that it wasn’t working, just that they weren’t better, or at least they felt it was not worth the daily hassle for them. I let guys inject on whatever schedule they’d like. There are a handful using a cream. I’m waiting for someone to want to do twice daily though, after reading about it on the internet, I’m sure.
Good luck moving forward.
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Good point. You have the clinical experience. My limited observations from forum chat is it is usually these “outliers” that feel dumber on TRT+:
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@readaload these facts are becoming harder to deny with all this data flying around these days….
I’ve tried different splits over the years, going way back to Starting Strength 15 years ago, but have been mostly doing the Doggcrapp routine for the past few years with some light cardio on the other days.
Typically eat 5 meals per day, 1-1.5 grams of protein per lb of body weight, most protein coming from chicken or lean ground beef. Try to get most of my carbs from whole grains. I don’t drink soda and I’ll drink alcohol maybe 2-3 times per month.
Been in endless cycles of cutting, bulking, or recomp but always seem to gain too much fat when bulking and stay skinny-fat when cutting.
I try to optimize natural testosterone with a multi, zinc, and vitamin D.
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How’s your sleep and stress?
This sounds so close to my situation. For as much as you care about nutrition, Smart exercising and the right suplements like you already do, your T wont come up. They help mantaining, but wont increase.
You are a candidate like i am. I just dont have doctors to help in this regard.
Lots of good advice in this thread, thanks guys.
My first week on TRT is nearly done. I know it takes weeks to start experiencing benefits but this week I felt less tired and stressed than I have in years. Probably just placebo and excitement from starting, but so far so good. The only (minor) issue was muscle soreness for about 3 days after the IM glute injection. I want to get settled into this clinic’s protocol first but would consider subQ if the soreness is like this every week for the next few months.
You should be using 27-29 gauge insulin syringes to inject shallow IM.
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