Starting TRT - Please Take a Look

herszt · February 11, 2018, 4:42pm

Hi,

AGE: 25
HEIGHT: 185 CM
WEIGHT: 76 KG

I’m an ectomorph with medium muscular body with a lot of hairs on my legs, but no hair on my chest and back and patchy beard, the hair on my head is very thick and has great volume.

I’m overal healthy, but I’m lacking of energy and have a lot of trouble with gaining weight and muscles. I’m working out but I’m not progressing, I did try a lot of different diets but I never had good results. I have no morning wood since I don’t know when.

I’ve just started my TRT last week. I’m living a land where the whole TRT topic is not common and it is very hard to find a doc who will take care of it.

I have been on TRT before and it felt amazing, but it was very uncomfortable for me to do the IM injections and also a couple of people discouraged me from doing it.

Then I’ve tried PCT, I took clomid which brought me horrible sides; I was super lazy, no energy at all if I had no work to do I’d sleep the whole day being on it. Then my hormones went back to normal and I didn’t had to use clomid anymore, but I was missing my high T so much that I was constantly thinking about returning on TRT. So after nearly a year I came back on; now doing subq injections so it is not causing any pain at all.

My protocol for now is as follows:

Test enanthate 100mg every week. I’m doing 50mg E3D. After 1-3 months I was suggested to jump on HCG 250IU twice a week. But when I’m reading the forum you guys suggest to use it immediately and not wait 1-3 months. So what should I do?

My last levels in January before going on TRT:
SHBG (s)40,33 nmol/l 11,4 - 52,3
Estradiol - E2
Estradiol (s)4 8,78 pmol/l 28 - 156
Estradiol 13,32 pg/ml 7,63 - 42,6
FSH 1,98 U/l 1,5 - 12,4
LH (s)3,93 U/l 1,7 - 8,6
PRL 181,9 mU/l 98 - 456
Testosterone 14,42 nmol/l 9,9 - 27,9
Testosterone free 10,34 pg/ml 4,25 - 30,37

These are from 29-07-2017
DHEA-S 301,7 ug/dl 34,5 - 568,9
TSH 0,773 uIU/ml 0,550 - 4,780
FT3 3,50 pg/ml 2,30 - 4,20
FT4 1,34 ng/dl 0,89 - 1,76

verne · February 11, 2018, 6:29pm

While waiting for more relies you should read the stickies

https://forums.t-nation.com/clicks/track?url=%2Fclicks%2Ftrack%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fforums.t-nation.com%252Ft%252Fabout-the-t-replacement-category%252F38%252F2%253Fu%253Dksman%26post_id%3D4590745%26topic_id%3D231303&post_id=4590745&topic_id=231303

herszt · February 11, 2018, 9:52pm

Thank you Verne. Is it okay now?

verne · February 12, 2018, 3:55pm

I have no talent for reading that system of measurements. I’m on the lazy side and am only the master of what I have personally dealt with. As to your question there is no good reason to wait before taking HCG. Your goal is to maintain the function of your testicles. Not to fix them after they shrink up. Don’t wait.
Estradiol looks like it might be high. Remembering that I do not read those measures well. Are you using an aromatase inhibitor?

KSman · February 12, 2018, 5:48pm

With TRT, LH/FSH–>zero in a day or two. hCG is needed immediately.

Without hCG your fertility is at risk. Are testes smaller now? Dull 24x7 aching?

hCG best dosed 250iu subq EOD [every other day].

Some guys feel horrible with clomid, others no problem. Clomid is not good for you. Nolvadex does not have that problem.

Let us know what land you are from so we know what you are dealing with.

Thyroid lab ranges are difficult…
Please self-eval overall thyroid function via oral body temperatures, see below. Also discuss your history of using iodized salt and sea food intake.

Low E2 [estradiol] suggested that average FT was low. FT changes a lot, so not single sample provides an average indication.

Most guys on TRT need to manage E2 with anastrozole and target is E2=80pmol/L [22pg/ml].

Looks like T is low because LH/FSH are low. And prolactin [PRL] is not elevated so not a cause of low LH/FSH].

On TRT you need these labs:
TT
FT
E2
CBC
hematocrit

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category - #2 by KSman

advice for new guys - need more info about you
things that damage your hormones
HPTA restart
protocol for injections
finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.

KSman is simply a regular member on this site. Nothing more other than highly active.

I can be a bit abrupt in my replies and recommendations. I have a lot of ground to cover as this forum has become much more active in the last two years. I can’t follow threads that go deep over time. You need to respond to all of my points and requests as soon as possible before you fall off of my radar. The worse problems are guys who ignore issues re thyroid, body temperatures, history of iodized salt. Please do not piss people off saying that lab results are normal, we need lab number and ranges.

The value that you get out of this process and forum depends on your effort and performance. The bulk of your learning is reading/studying the suggested stickies.

herszt · February 12, 2018, 9:43pm

Thank you for reply KSman.

The problem is that HCG is illegal here in Poland.
So I have no chance getting it from the pharmacy, but I am already trying to get it.

At this moment I don’t think that my testes are smaller now, I just did 100 mg (I’m on TRT since last week). I feel okay now, not my best but I think better than before I started, like I’m beginning to feel test, but can be placebo.

I have some clomid at home, but I felt horrible on it and don’t want to touch it tho. Can I replace HCG with nolvadex? I can try to get nolva from the pharmacy.

My free testosterone and e2 levels from the past:

02-08-2017

Free testosterone16,18 pg/ml 4,5 - 42 pg/ml
E2 53,40 pg/ml 11,80 -39,80

Im not sure if this is CBC, but:

Morfologia (C55)
Leukocytes 5,09 K/μl 4,0 — 10,0
erythrocytes 5,41 M/μl 4,5 — 5,5
Hematocrit 48,4% 40-54

MCV 89,0 fl 80,0 - 97,0
MCH 31,0 pg 27,0 - 34,0
MCHC 34,7 g/dl 33,0 - 36,0
RDW 13,6% 11,0 - 15,0

Platelet ? 162 K/ul 150 - 450
PCT 0,12 0,12 - 0,36
PDW 11,0 11,5 - 21,0
MPV 7,2 6,1 - 11,0

About the body temperature, I need to get thermometer first.

iron_yuppie · February 12, 2018, 11:21pm

You should be able to find HCG outside of a doctor. You really should try to get ahold of it, it’s tremendously helpful for your overall health.

herszt · February 13, 2018, 9:59pm

I found something already. Will get it in the following couple of days. It is pretty expensive however, so can I take it 2 x a week, 250iu subq and not EOD?

iron_yuppie · February 13, 2018, 10:17pm

Yep, take it twice a week.

herszt · February 13, 2018, 10:51pm

Alright. Thank you!

herszt · February 14, 2018, 5:22pm

@KSman @iron_yuppie

Monday: 250iu HCG
Tuesday: 50mg TEST
Friday: 50 mg TEST / 250iu HCG

Is it okay like this? Or should I take HCG on other days or can I take it on the same day as I do TEST?

iron_yuppie · February 17, 2018, 1:54pm

I take mine on different days, but I don’t know if there’s any reason to, other than that’s what my doctor said.

anon10230041 · February 17, 2018, 3:05pm

I just starter Similar protocol and have been reading inject HCG 24 hrs before t injection. Am doing exactly what your doing but different days. 250 HCG Fri , 50 mg t Sat am, 250 mon, 50 Tuesday pm.
I’ll follow your thread. Interested on how u do. I also just started daily Cialis because I hated thinking if my d will work. I was taking Viagra when needed but I don’t even what to think about if I can maintain hard d.

herszt · February 18, 2018, 4:23pm

I’m going to do HCG and T on the same day. As far as I am reading there is no reason against it, and it is easier to remember the shots like this. But if I’m doing it wrong please someone correct me.

Why are you using Viagra anyway? I mean is there a medical reason for it?

anon10230041 · February 18, 2018, 5:46pm

It takes time to dial in your trt perfectly so that you have no issues with erections. And then even if you feel good may still have erection issues.
So I have erection issues a few days a week. Being I want to perform any day of the week I take Viagra or Cialis. People have been taking these drugs everyday for many years for pulmonary hypertension.
So I think it’s no big deal me taking it.

herszt · February 19, 2018, 9:50pm

Okay. I see no problem either. I probably would do the same when I was in your situation.
I mean, I just wanted to know the reason for it, thought it has something to make with your TRT.

herszt · February 23, 2018, 8:25pm

So it’s nearly my third week of TRT. So far I’m only on TEST Cyp 50mg E3D and HCG 250 UI 2 x a week. Should I start taking AI? I have Symex (Exemestanum) @ home. Or is it better for me to wait until I got the lab results (will do this after the first month, so it will be approx. 7 march)

PS I can do nearly every bloodwork for free, what labs should I take? I’ve been reading here that you guys do not recommend testing free T, instead you are calculating it using SHGB and TT. Is it not necessary to do the free test lab then?

systemlord · February 23, 2018, 10:50pm

Forget about direct FT labs. Wait for labs indicating high E2.

http://www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm

herszt · February 24, 2018, 8:23pm

I’ll first do the labs yeah. Thanks

herszt · February 26, 2018, 10:02pm

This is how I just woke up. With imprints and redness on my body, I had it on my legs too. Did someone have similar issues?

This is hapenning just now when I restarted TRT. When I was off I didn’t have it like that. Before when I was on TRT I had this too.

I suppose it happens due to higher level of E2 as I am not feeling really well the last couple of days. I have a huge lack of energy, if I only could I’d sleep the whole day long, this is destroying my everyday life.

My first whole month on TRT will be on 7 march 2018 I was going to do the labwork then, but should I do it earlier?

I was willing to wait till then to check if I need some AI (in my case it will be Symex (Exemestanum) as I have it at home) but maybe I should start taking it now? And if yes, what dosage?

Please help me out.