Starting Strength or 5/3/1?

Why is dis still going lel?

Move on when you stall and can’t progress as the program intends SS > Texas > 5/3/1

idk. and ok, thanks- that’s what I guessed
Edit- the last 11 posts were unrelated

I have no idea what the optimal level is.

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As in, does 5/3/1 allow the trainee to progress at their maximum novice potential? Or does 5/3/1 limit the trainee’s progress by keeping them at the same weights when they are recovered and ready to progress to higher weights?

I do not know what this is. How much is the maximal?

He means AFAP- as fast as possible

Yes, and I am asking how fast that is.

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Maybe 10 lbs. a workout for lower body lifts, and 5 lbs. for upper body? Or, more reasonably, 5 per workout for lower body, and 2.5 per workout for upper body. Even though 5/3/1 doesn’t increase each workout, is its monthly increase equivalent to that of SS?

The gains in your 1RM in 1 month from 5/3/1 are kinda hard to predict
Just like SS, because you could stall out at any time

If you don’t know the max, I don’t know how you can tell you are reaching it.

You will progress as fast in 5/3/1 for how hard you try. It is up to you to determine progress, not the program.

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Why are you under the impression that SS is at maximum potential? Even if it was all this meams nothing without a timeframe. I can tell you that once you stall for the first time the progress rate is abysmal for SS.

“But I’m working my ass off on my tricep kickback, concentration curl, BOSU unilateral squat, rest pause cable crossover routine, and not seeing any difference”
Edit:

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Okay.

In the form of a calculated 1RM.

What?

Yeah, it’s not exactly true when people say that you’ll make slower gains on 531 than SS or another LP. If you take 135 from your 5 RM and get to where you hit 10 reps with it, you’ve gotten a good bit stronger and your 5RM will have risen a good bit as well. You don’t have to operate near your max (3 or 5 RM included here) to improve it.

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Yes, you COULD stall out at any time, but if you can squat 185 for 3 x 5 because you did it on your last SS workout, you know you have a higher 1RM than someone resigned to squatting 165 for the month that they stalled on 5/3/1.

Yup, you’ve explained it. Two ways of hitting the same goal. But the question is–which one is more effective? And are we basing effectiveness on the rate of growth or the amount of growth over a slower period of time?

Meaning that if you’re able to squat 225 x 5, you know your 1RM has to be more than 225 and is probably somewhere around 255. Take into consideration the fact that you’ve squatted three sets of 225 for 5 reps each in the same workout, and you know your 1RM is probably higher than 255 as well.

But up until that stalling point, which program is more effective in its entirety? 5/3/1 is obviously the answer. But the question is will doing SS provide a substantial boost in strength before the trainee begins 5/3/1, or will just sticking with 5/3/1 from the beginning be best? I think the point that’s been missed in this thread is how we are judging effectiveness. 5/3/1 is obviously better for priming long-term gains than SS is. SS is a fast-paced program with rapid increases in weight for as long as the trainee can handle it. It is NLP at its finest. 5/3/1, however, takes a more measured approach in terms of how fast the trainee puts an increasing weight on the bar. So, I think that the effectiveness of both programs should be measured in terms of whether or not SS —> 5/3/1 is more conducive than just 5/3/1. Basically, SS is a supplementary program to pack some weight on a bar. It’s not meant to be a forever thing.