T Nation

Starting a Cycle In January


250 mg's test E shot sunday and wednesday weeks 1-10
40 mg's of winny weeks 8-12
arimidex .5 eod weeks 1-12
hcg 250 mg's shot on sunday and monday weeks 3-12
nolvadex 40,40,20,20 weeks 12-16 or clomid im not sure b/c of the sides

i was wondering if everything sounds right...please critique


If you run the winny through the end of week 12 then dont start your nolv/clomid until the start of week 13. I like the way this looks though. Unless you are very prone to gyno you will probably not even need an AI. If you just want to be safe Adex at .25 eod would be fine IMO. Looks good.


why wait a week? i thought the half life of winny is like 12 hours or something very short...isnt a week to long to wait?


It doesn't matter if it has a short half-life, you don't start your PCT until you're done with all AAS, period. Don't you find the contradiction in terms of starting your Post Cycle Therapy while you're still on cycle?

Also, there's no reason you should be taking in HCG for all of weeks 3 through 12, save it for the last week you inject Test.


i thought taking hcg weekly makes for an easier pct? so your saying start pct one week after i take the winny? would it be better to run the winny weeks 7-11 so i could start pct week 12?


The HCG, at least in my experience is very quick acting and thus not necessary for the bulk of the cycle.


Looks good.

I would take the Hcg on Sun and Wed or Mon and Thu (my pref), really no as much sense in two days in a row if you are taking your test twice a week, and I'd bump it to 400iu each time.

You'd probably be fine with .25mg Arimidex EOD

The Nolvadex doesn't need to go above 20mg unless used as gyno-control. Also your Pct would start on week 13 since you are running your winstrol and arimidex through week 12, but I think that's what you meant anyway.


But HCG has no place whatsoever in PCT. It doesn't make any sense. HCG has always traditionally been used for a Pre-Pct and people didn't even know it. When running long esters for let's say 10 weeks, the common wisdom is to run your hcg weeks 11-12 - that is a period of time where your exogenous levels are tapering off, but are still above a level that would allow recovery. Traditionally PCT would start at week 13, which is after the HCG use. To use Hcg after a short-ester (like winstrol) would be counter-productive at that time. HCG is used to stimulate the leydig cells through it's simularity to LH, basically acting as a synthetic LH. Now if your body will respond to a synthetic LH (HCG) then it will respond to your endogenously produced LH (Post cycle); as post cycle, which again is truly after your exogenous levels have fallen sub-pre-levels, our body produces LH and is very sensitive at this time. We use drugs like serms to give us a kick start. Using HCG at this time would cause our bodys not to produce LH as it would be seen as present and we would also lose some sensitivity that we would naturally have enhanced at this time on the synthetic LH (HCG). Using Hcg during a cycle allows the testes to maintain function, suppression is a different issue, and therefore MIGHT allow for an easier recovery, and if not at least it keeps you a dangling unit. I'm tired and a bit un-focused, but I hope I'm making some sense.


Oops. Sorry, I didn't read your post clearly Contrl. I see now that you were telling him to use it after his last test shot, so weeks 11-12 or whatnot. I still prefer to run it all cycle myself. Anyway......


it looks pretty solid.

i would be tempted to add in a jumpstart with an oral like d-bol, or test prop from week 1-4.

0.25 mg EOD of a-dex should work for the dosage of test being used.

i personally don't see the need for HCG in a 12 week cycle. however, your outlined protocol looks fine IMO. it may act quickly, but i'd rather be proactive instead of playing catchup at cycle's end.

clomid or nolva for PCT is an individual preference thing. personally, i much prefer clomid. 100/50/50/50 for weeks 13-16 should be fine. if nolva, 40/20/20/20


now i understand what you mean, it was my fault...i wouldnt be starting my pct until week 13. i would be done the winny at the end of week 12


so should i run hcg during cycle? if i do, run it weeks 3-12? then my pct starts 13-16