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Starting 531

Basically I have been doing the greyskull LP program (very similar to SS) for 3 months, but like a month ago I started stalling repeteadly on all my lifts. Now I’m even losing strenght, which is strange considering that I’m still very weak. So basically I have thought about switching to a program with a slower progression for at least 4 months: the 531.

I will be doing the BBB template to try to increase energy expenditure and promote fat loss. The only problem is that I don’t have a squat rack, so I can’t do one of the main lifts. Instead of squatting I have thought about using 531 for power cleans, but I’m not sure about the best way to program their assistance in a BBB template.

This the assistance I think could work. Does it look good?

Day 1-OHP 531 OHP, 5x10 OHP, Lateral raises 5x10
2-DL 531 DL, 5x10 DL, Leg curls 5x10
3-BP 531 BP, 5x10 BP, BB rows 5x10
4-PC 531 BO, 5x10 Front squats (with so many sets it would be a weight I could clean easily), BB curls 5x10
Chin ups are done between every pressing set.

I have another question, is there any way to incorporate heavy chins into this program? I don’t think it would be a good idea to do them between sets right?

A) Eat more. There is no way you could be losing strength as a beginner on a beginner’s program unless you aren’t eating enough.

B) I like to alternate weekly with bw chins for reps and weighted chins, you can do heavy chins between sets of assistance bench/ohp. It’s not going to affect your 5x10 sets.

C) Eat more. Specifically protein. Specifically meat.

^ In addition to this,

2 points,

first, your goal shouldn’t be weight loss if you’re using the BBB assistance. You gota eat or you won’t recover. This is probably why you are stalling as is.

second, I would have another rowing movement on Overhead Press day. You also have no abdominal work.

Honestly, if I was you, I would use the assistance that Jim laid out in his “3 month challenge” article. I’m not saying do the challenge, but just use the assistance that he put in there.

Where there is a will there is a way. I’m sure you can figure out a way to squat.

[quote]scj119 wrote:
A) Eat more. There is no way you could be losing strength as a beginner on a beginner’s program unless you aren’t eating enough.

B) I like to alternate weekly with bw chins for reps and weighted chins, you can do heavy chins between sets of assistance bench/ohp. It’s not going to affect your 5x10 sets.

C) Eat more. Specifically protein. Specifically meat.[/quote]

Fuck I clicked on report instead of quote. Sorry really tired and asleep. Now I’ll have to write it all over again lol.
a) I use a carb cycling aproach. No carbs (except vegetables and sometimes fruit) on non training days and carbs before and after training. I also have 1-2 cheat days a week. keep in mind that right now my number 1 goal is fat loss, so then I can focus on gaining strenght and size slowly (I really rushed it the first time with that GOMAD shit and now I’m paying the consequences).

b) What rep-set scheme do you recommend for both bw and weighted chins?

c) Yeah will definitely keep that in mind. Need to get myself a job to buy some whey protein.

Thank you for your time and again sorry for reporting you. Is there any way of deleting a report or something like that?

[quote]ilyan93 wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:
A) Eat more. There is no way you could be losing strength as a beginner on a beginner’s program unless you aren’t eating enough.

B) I like to alternate weekly with bw chins for reps and weighted chins, you can do heavy chins between sets of assistance bench/ohp. It’s not going to affect your 5x10 sets.

C) Eat more. Specifically protein. Specifically meat.[/quote]

Fuck I clicked on report instead of quote. Sorry really tired and asleep. Now I’ll have to write it all over again lol.
a) I use a carb cycling aproach. No carbs (except vegetables and sometimes fruit) on non training days and carbs before and after training. I also have 1-2 cheat days a week.

b) What rep-set scheme do you recommend for both bw and weighted chins?

c) Yeah will definitely keep that in mind. Need to get myself a job to buy some whey protein.

Thank you for your time and again sorry for reporting you. Is there any way of deleting a report or something like that?[/quote]

I have no idea what reporting even does.

I’ve only recently started weighted chins, but they’ve helped my reps go way up on bw chins. I did a couple warmup sets of bodyweight, then threw on a 25lb plate, then a 45lb plate till I failed, then went back down to do one bodyweight set till failure.

For bodyweight chins I just do 5-6 sets of as many as I can, being about 1 rep away from failure. I’m going to start recording total reps per workout and try to break PRs in that once/twice a month.

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
^ In addition to this,

2 points,

first, your goal shouldn’t be weight loss if you’re using the BBB assistance. You gota eat or you won’t recover. This is probably why you are stalling as is.

second, I would have another rowing movement on Overhead Press day. You also have no abdominal work.

Honestly, if I was you, I would use the assistance that Jim laid out in his “3 month challenge” article. I’m not saying do the challenge, but just use the assistance that he put in there.[/quote]

The 3 month challenge has even more volume and more intensity than BBB. I would probably overtrain if i did that program while on a caloric deficit.

Also, what rowing movement would you recommend on Overhead Press day? Should I get rid of lateral raises? Today I tried them but struggled with anything over 5kg because of the ridicolous amount of OHP sets I did.

And the last thing: what ab work do you recommend? I thought that front squats did a pretty good job on strenghtening the core.

[quote]EveryLastingScar wrote:
Where there is a will there is a way. I’m sure you can figure out a way to squat.

lol that makes me want to squat even more! The only way I could have to squat is to use the dip station, but I don’t think it would hold alot more than a 100kg (225lb) BB. And doing high reps isn’t an option because if i get stuck in the hole i’m basically fucked up. If i’m doing front squats I can just dump the bar.

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]ilyan93 wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:
A) Eat more. There is no way you could be losing strength as a beginner on a beginner’s program unless you aren’t eating enough.

B) I like to alternate weekly with bw chins for reps and weighted chins, you can do heavy chins between sets of assistance bench/ohp. It’s not going to affect your 5x10 sets.

C) Eat more. Specifically protein. Specifically meat.[/quote]

Fuck I clicked on report instead of quote. Sorry really tired and asleep. Now I’ll have to write it all over again lol.
a) I use a carb cycling aproach. No carbs (except vegetables and sometimes fruit) on non training days and carbs before and after training. I also have 1-2 cheat days a week.

b) What rep-set scheme do you recommend for both bw and weighted chins?

c) Yeah will definitely keep that in mind. Need to get myself a job to buy some whey protein.

Thank you for your time and again sorry for reporting you. Is there any way of deleting a report or something like that?[/quote]

I have no idea what reporting even does.

I’ve only recently started weighted chins, but they’ve helped my reps go way up on bw chins. I did a couple warmup sets of bodyweight, then threw on a 25lb plate, then a 45lb plate till I failed, then went back down to do one bodyweight set till failure.

For bodyweight chins I just do 5-6 sets of as many as I can, being about 1 rep away from failure. I’m going to start recording total reps per workout and try to break PRs in that once/twice a month.[/quote]

Do you do them between pressing sets?

[quote]ilyan93 wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]ilyan93 wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:
A) Eat more. There is no way you could be losing strength as a beginner on a beginner’s program unless you aren’t eating enough.

B) I like to alternate weekly with bw chins for reps and weighted chins, you can do heavy chins between sets of assistance bench/ohp. It’s not going to affect your 5x10 sets.

C) Eat more. Specifically protein. Specifically meat.[/quote]

Fuck I clicked on report instead of quote. Sorry really tired and asleep. Now I’ll have to write it all over again lol.
a) I use a carb cycling aproach. No carbs (except vegetables and sometimes fruit) on non training days and carbs before and after training. I also have 1-2 cheat days a week.

b) What rep-set scheme do you recommend for both bw and weighted chins?

c) Yeah will definitely keep that in mind. Need to get myself a job to buy some whey protein.

Thank you for your time and again sorry for reporting you. Is there any way of deleting a report or something like that?[/quote]

I have no idea what reporting even does.

I’ve only recently started weighted chins, but they’ve helped my reps go way up on bw chins. I did a couple warmup sets of bodyweight, then threw on a 25lb plate, then a 45lb plate till I failed, then went back down to do one bodyweight set till failure.

For bodyweight chins I just do 5-6 sets of as many as I can, being about 1 rep away from failure. I’m going to start recording total reps per workout and try to break PRs in that once/twice a month.[/quote]

Do you do them between pressing sets?
[/quote]

Personally I do chins between my warmup sets of OHP/Bench, and between all sets of whatever my main assistance is (currently Dips on OHP day and incline bench on Bench day).

I don’t have any sort of outstanding back development, I’m not exactly an expert, I just go by basic logic. I do them in a way that makes sense in my gym and on my workout schedule, and I make sure I am progressing in some way from workout to workout (or from cycle to cycle). They don’t hinder my assistance work when I superset them, so I do it then.

Yeah that’s what I have done today and it has worked well. They did not interfere with my main lift. My main concern is doing them weighted, in which case I think they would do more harm than good. I guess I will have to try it out.

BTW, does anybody else use this calculator? blackironbeast.com/5/3/1/calculator

[quote]ilyan93 wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
^ In addition to this,

2 points,

first, your goal shouldn’t be weight loss if you’re using the BBB assistance. You gota eat or you won’t recover. This is probably why you are stalling as is.

second, I would have another rowing movement on Overhead Press day. You also have no abdominal work.

Honestly, if I was you, I would use the assistance that Jim laid out in his “3 month challenge” article. I’m not saying do the challenge, but just use the assistance that he put in there.[/quote]

The 3 month challenge has even more volume and more intensity than BBB. I would probably overtrain if i did that program while on a caloric deficit.

Also, what rowing movement would you recommend on Overhead Press day? Should I get rid of lateral raises? Today I tried them but struggled with anything over 5kg because of the ridicolous amount of OHP sets I did.

And the last thing: what ab work do you recommend? I thought that front squats did a pretty good job on strenghtening the core.[/quote]

I’m not saying to use the percentages from the challenge for your BBB sets, just to use the template he laid out. So like this:

Press 5/3/1
Bench 5x10
chins 5x10
curls, tri pushdowns, face pulls 3x10

Deadlift 5/3/1
squat 5x10
ab wheel 5x10-20

Bench 5/3/1
Press 5x10
db rows 5x10
curls, tri pushdowns, face pulls 3x10

Squat 5/3/1
deadlift 5x10
hanging leg raises 5x10

If you wanna keep what you got, I would do chins between each set of bench and press, and then on one upper body day do db rows, and on the other do chest supported rows or barbell rows.

For ab work, I love the ab wheel and heavy db side bends

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]ilyan93 wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
^ In addition to this,

2 points,

first, your goal shouldn’t be weight loss if you’re using the BBB assistance. You gota eat or you won’t recover. This is probably why you are stalling as is.

second, I would have another rowing movement on Overhead Press day. You also have no abdominal work.

Honestly, if I was you, I would use the assistance that Jim laid out in his “3 month challenge” article. I’m not saying do the challenge, but just use the assistance that he put in there.[/quote]

The 3 month challenge has even more volume and more intensity than BBB. I would probably overtrain if i did that program while on a caloric deficit.

Also, what rowing movement would you recommend on Overhead Press day? Should I get rid of lateral raises? Today I tried them but struggled with anything over 5kg because of the ridicolous amount of OHP sets I did.

And the last thing: what ab work do you recommend? I thought that front squats did a pretty good job on strenghtening the core.[/quote]

I’m not saying to use the percentages from the challenge for your BBB sets, just to use the template he laid out. So like this:

Press 5/3/1
Bench 5x10
chins 5x10
curls, tri pushdowns, face pulls 3x10

Deadlift 5/3/1
squat 5x10
ab wheel 5x10-20

Bench 5/3/1
Press 5x10
db rows 5x10
curls, tri pushdowns, face pulls 3x10

Squat 5/3/1
deadlift 5x10
hanging leg raises 5x10

If you wanna keep what you got, I would do chins between each set of bench and press, and then on one upper body day do db rows, and on the other do chest supported rows or barbell rows.

For ab work, I love the ab wheel and heavy db side bends

As far as the lateral raises, if your shoulders are getting so much work you can barely lift 10 pounds, then the lateral raises are overkill and I would drop them.
[/quote]

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]ilyan93 wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
^ In addition to this,

2 points,

first, your goal shouldn’t be weight loss if you’re using the BBB assistance. You gota eat or you won’t recover. This is probably why you are stalling as is.

second, I would have another rowing movement on Overhead Press day. You also have no abdominal work.

Honestly, if I was you, I would use the assistance that Jim laid out in his “3 month challenge” article. I’m not saying do the challenge, but just use the assistance that he put in there.[/quote]

The 3 month challenge has even more volume and more intensity than BBB. I would probably overtrain if i did that program while on a caloric deficit.

Also, what rowing movement would you recommend on Overhead Press day? Should I get rid of lateral raises? Today I tried them but struggled with anything over 5kg because of the ridicolous amount of OHP sets I did.

And the last thing: what ab work do you recommend? I thought that front squats did a pretty good job on strenghtening the core.[/quote]

I’m not saying to use the percentages from the challenge for your BBB sets, just to use the template he laid out. So like this:

Press 5/3/1
Bench 5x10
chins 5x10
curls, tri pushdowns, face pulls 3x10

Deadlift 5/3/1
squat 5x10
ab wheel 5x10-20

Bench 5/3/1
Press 5x10
db rows 5x10
curls, tri pushdowns, face pulls 3x10

Squat 5/3/1
deadlift 5x10
hanging leg raises 5x10

If you wanna keep what you got, I would do chins between each set of bench and press, and then on one upper body day do db rows, and on the other do chest supported rows or barbell rows.

For ab work, I love the ab wheel and heavy db side bends

As far as the lateral raises, if your shoulders are getting so much work you can barely lift 10 pounds, then the lateral raises are overkill and I would drop them.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I really like your idea of doing rows 2 times a week. Will also try to incorporate leg raises and the ab wheel. Just one more thing, I don’t have dumbbells heavy enough to do rows (and even less kroc rows): they go up to 25kg. Is it okay to do Kroc Rows with a BB (either like a one-handed T-bar row or one handed bb row)?.
BTW why do you think it is better to alternate BBB assistance with the main lift? (like doing BBB press after 531 bench)

[quote]ilyan93 wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]ilyan93 wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
^ In addition to this,

2 points,

first, your goal shouldn’t be weight loss if you’re using the BBB assistance. You gota eat or you won’t recover. This is probably why you are stalling as is.

second, I would have another rowing movement on Overhead Press day. You also have no abdominal work.

Honestly, if I was you, I would use the assistance that Jim laid out in his “3 month challenge” article. I’m not saying do the challenge, but just use the assistance that he put in there.[/quote]

The 3 month challenge has even more volume and more intensity than BBB. I would probably overtrain if i did that program while on a caloric deficit.

Also, what rowing movement would you recommend on Overhead Press day? Should I get rid of lateral raises? Today I tried them but struggled with anything over 5kg because of the ridicolous amount of OHP sets I did.

And the last thing: what ab work do you recommend? I thought that front squats did a pretty good job on strenghtening the core.[/quote]

I’m not saying to use the percentages from the challenge for your BBB sets, just to use the template he laid out. So like this:

Press 5/3/1
Bench 5x10
chins 5x10
curls, tri pushdowns, face pulls 3x10

Deadlift 5/3/1
squat 5x10
ab wheel 5x10-20

Bench 5/3/1
Press 5x10
db rows 5x10
curls, tri pushdowns, face pulls 3x10

Squat 5/3/1
deadlift 5x10
hanging leg raises 5x10

If you wanna keep what you got, I would do chins between each set of bench and press, and then on one upper body day do db rows, and on the other do chest supported rows or barbell rows.

For ab work, I love the ab wheel and heavy db side bends

As far as the lateral raises, if your shoulders are getting so much work you can barely lift 10 pounds, then the lateral raises are overkill and I would drop them.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I really like your idea of doing rows 2 times a week. Will also try to incorporate leg raises and the ab wheel. Just one more thing, I don’t have dumbbells heavy enough to do rows (and even less kroc rows): they go up to 25kg. Is it okay to do Kroc Rows with a BB (either like a one-handed T-bar row or one handed bb row)?.
[/quote]

I wouldn’t do them just holding the barbell in the middle, because I think you have to balance it so much you wouldn’t get much of the benefit. Look up “meadows rows”. Basically its like a one handed T-bar row, except that your body is still on one side of the barbell, like it would be in a dumbbell row. You aren’t strattling the barbell like in a T-bar row.

Thanks I will definitely try them out. I noticed that you recommended switching assistance BBB lifts between the 531 lifts (like doing a BBB press after a 531 bench). Why do you recommend that?

[quote]ilyan93 wrote:
Thanks I will definitely try them out. I noticed that you recommended switching assistance BBB lifts between the 531 lifts (like doing a BBB press after a 531 bench). Why do you recommend that?[/quote]

Oh yea, sorry I missed that in your last post. Basically just to break the boredom a bit. It will also give you more frequent practice with the lifts.

You could keep it the same though, it’s not a big deal really.

Thanks for the help to everybody who has commented. Following your suggestions, I have setup the program like this:

Press 5/3/1
Press 5x10
various grip chins between every pressing set.
Cable or Pendlay Row 5x10 (which one do you think is better for me? Pendlays fatigue the lower back, bad thing before a deadlift day right?).
curls, tri pushdowns, face pulls, 3x10 (these are optional)

Deadlift 5/3/1
Deadlift 5x10
ab wheel 5x10-20

Bench 5/3/1
Bench 5x10
Various grip chins between every pressing set.
Meadows row 5x10 (per side).
curls, tri pushdowns, face pulls 3x10 (these are optional)

Squat 5/3/1
deadlift 5x10
hanging leg raises 5x10 (May switch these up for something else, they cause a slight discomfort in my lower back, any suggestions?).

At the end of every session I will be doing conditioning on the C2 rower.

[quote]ilyan93 wrote:
Thanks for the help to everybody who has commented. Following your suggestions, I have setup the program like this:

Press 5/3/1
Press 5x10
various grip chins between every pressing set.
Cable or Pendlay Row 5x10 (which one do you think is better for me? Pendlays fatigue the lower back, bad thing before a deadlift day right?).
curls, tri pushdowns, face pulls, 3x10 (these are optional)

Deadlift 5/3/1
Deadlift 5x10
ab wheel 5x10-20

Bench 5/3/1
Bench 5x10
Various grip chins between every pressing set.
Meadows row 5x10 (per side).
curls, tri pushdowns, face pulls 3x10 (these are optional)

Squat 5/3/1
deadlift 5x10
hanging leg raises 5x10 (May switch these up for something else, they cause a slight discomfort in my lower back, any suggestions?).

At the end of every session I will be doing conditioning on the C2 rower.
[/quote]

Looks good to me. I wouldn’t do the pendlays if they fatigue your lower back.

I would suggest db side bends

Thank you very much. Already on week 2 of the first cycle. Really loving the program.