Started T Therapy this Week

[royinks]

So for the last few years have been feeling less and less interested in the things I like to do. I've been putting off seeing a DR for too long and finally went a month or so ago. Came in with a laundry list of symptoms and he ran a battery of labs, more than I have ever seen. Got the results back a few days later and didn't see any Test labs. Kinda disappointed since most of my symptoms you can attribute to low T. As far as labs most everything was good except for very low Vitamin D. Slightly elevated bad colesterol, Slightly low good colesterol. BP in check with no meds. Pre diabetic, but have been that way for 5 years and holding.

I have always been overweight, when I was 220 (5'8) I felt overweight, now would do almost anything to get back to that weight, I'm about 320 now. But I am sore and no drive or energy to give the effort. The Dr says excess calories (which I actually don't eat that much) and take a vit D supplement. On the same followup visit I inquire about low T and he said he didn't test for that, and "didn't do much with low T"

Pretty much left the Dr. office with constant thougts of low T and just wanted to see where I was at numbers wise. If I was in the OK range I would forget about it, but at least my mind would be at ease. Most mverything I read is about guys having life changing experiences on TRT. I did a search a couple days later looking for something online that would test and supply prescriptions at a reasonable cost. I found a place and contacted them, recieved a reply a few hours later and gave him the short story of symptoms. Next day I was at a Local Lab getting blood drawn and a few days later recieved just total T results of 194. So there ya have it, I was relieved actually to see this low number. It means TRT is possible. Last Monday I recieved a 6 month supply of everything needed. Test, HCG, B12, AI, Clomid, syringes, Bact water, alcohol wipes, etc.

The first I could the next day I prepared a syringe of Test, but froze when trying to inject. Lol I had watch at least 10 youtube vids of how to do it and it looked so painless. But when it came to it just couldn't do it. Got so close but not gonna do it. Finally later that day I did it. Surprisingly it was painless in the thigh. The worst part was feeling the different layers while I slowly pushed it al the way in. It was a 23ga 1" needle. I used the outer mid thigh due to easy access.

So far I don't feel any different, to be expected. It is easy to get caught up in the placebo. The protocol I recieved was 200mg 1x a week and injections of HCG and B12 on different subsequent days. AI 2x a week. The Clomid and extra HCG is for post cycle in just under 6 months.

That's my story so far, so we'll see where this goes. I'll try to give updates every week or 2.

[blshaw]

You need to read the stickies at the top of the forum. That's way to high of a starting dosage, normal is 100mg. You should start with just the T/HCG for 6 weeks and see how your E react. Take follow up labs. Then typically you would add 1mg arimadex split during the week if your E spikes high. If it doesnt' you may be ok with none or .5mg arimadex.

[royinks]

Actually the Dr. recommended I go to 300mg per week to start due to my
weight. I didn't feel comfortable with the research I've done, that and the
program cost a little more with 300mg. The initial labs were just for Total
T, but I'm gonna request follow ups to be more detailed. The assumption is
my E is high also so the program is geared toward raising T, lowering E,
then lab test and adjust. There are some things I would like to try, like
100mg IM once a week by doing .5 cc IM, then .5cc SubQ 3 days after.
However they are adamant to stick to the program as outlined for now.

Thanks for the suggestions though. I have read a lot of threads on here and
see that a lot end up at 200mg anyway. So I am comfortable with that. If I
was low T around 300 total, then they probably would have started at 100mg
I imagine. I'm a total newb at this stuff, and I tell you that first IM
injection was a rough one. lol I can't believe how painless it was though
once I manned up and did it. Next one should be easier I hope.

[blshaw]

Your T dose is not dependent on your body weight. Myth. Each body metabolizes it differently. This is why you should start on a standard dose and go up or down thereafter. Go ahead and try the 200mg but you are more likely to hike your T up too high and your E. Its easier to start the other way and adjust.

[Nashtide]

I think it's safe to start out with an AI from the get go. All that extra weight is an aromatase factory. I agree that 200mg/week is too high. You'll figure it out after you waste 2 months...lol

[royinks]

See that is why I didn't want to up to 300, because I read that it isn't
dependent on weight.

In the end I started feeling like the place I went to is more about money
than my health. Cause does it really cost more to compound 300mg test vs
200mg? I doubt it does. But I was too far into their program and was just
ready to get started on something. I am sure I will learn a lot as I go.
How will I waste 6 weeks?

[Nashtide]

Because that high dose will cause a lot of E2 which you won't control properly. It will also raise your hematocrit and greatly increase the risk of stroke. You will feel great for a couple weeks then you'll come back and post how terrible you feel. Low energy, no libido, no motivation, emotional, etc. then you'll run labs and surprise surprise your E2 is through the roof. You'll take too much Adex and crash your E2. That all takes about two months. That's when you'll figure out the folks on this site were right. Happens every day here.

[royinks]

Ya I know, my reg doc said that I was an estrogen factory basically. No
treatment other than lose weight... snore. Taking the vitamin D supplement
though.

[royinks]

I hear ya, and that is about right where I'm starting. Low energy, no
libido, no motivation, etc.

From everything I read, 200mg is where a lot end up. It seemed to be the
average, but that was just looking around. I did see a lot of starting
lower, but seemed to creep up to 200. Not much over 300mg out there it
seemed, so I am glad I didn't go that route. I can def cut the dose weekly
in half. Just have to cut that to .5cc instead of 1cc...

[Nashtide]

There's a point where TRT ends and steroids begin. The purpose of TRT is to REPLACE. If we are replacing, then we want our TT and FT to be in the high range. If we use enough T to put our TT and FT into supra physiologic ranges, then we are not replacing, we are doing a long term steroid cycle.

Most guys can get comfortably into the high TT and FT by injecting a total of around 100mgs/week. So it depends on your goals. If you want to balance feeling great with good health, you'll stay in the high ranges. If not, then proceed at your own risk.

[blshaw]

Nash hit all points there. 120mg a week gets me to the tippy top of the range. Past that you risk complications. If it were me I would start at 100mg and take labs after 6 weeks. As I said, you can adjust easier this way then going the opposite and causing issues that you are chasing down. Much much harder.

[royinks]

Definitely replacement is goal. But it is what the Dr. ordered so how can
we go against that?

[royinks]

Thanks, this is what I am battling when I mentioned I got some info off the
internet.

"No! Please follow our trt protocol exactly as directed."

I was asking about having one injection day, instead of T one day, HCG
another and B12 the next.

So I imagine I would hear the same thing if I mentioned I was cutting the
dose.

[KSman]

Blind trust in doctors is dumb. You will find more knowledge here that most docs will ever know.

You need to inject twice a week and to get steadier T levels so the competitive drug anastrozole/Arimidex can be balanced/competitive with steady serum T levels.

Please read these stickies found here: https://forums.t-nation.com/t/about-the-t-replacement-category/38/2?u=ksman

• advice for new guys - need more info about you
• things that damage your hormones
• protocol for injections
• finding a TRT doc, probably not needed if you learn to think for yourself.

Your weight gain may be from thyroid problems and low T, sometimes thyroid problems cause low T.

Post all of your lab work with ranges. No, normal is not good enough.

Many who start on 200mg/week do not seem to be able to get balanced. Your research is selected by things that you want to hear.

[Nashtide]

Most folks come on forums looking for advice but what they actually want is affirmation.

[royinks]

So question I have now is, lower T injection to half, what does this do to
HCG amount?

[royinks]

Thanks, I did read some of them a while back but will revisit.

Guess Hippa doesn't apply here. lol

Test Serum 194 Range 380-1000

Problem is we are flying blind on E2 right now.

Thy rox ine (T4) - 8.6 Range: 4.5-12.0 - ug/dL
TSH - 2.160 Range: 0.450-4.500 - uIU/mL

Vitamin D, 25-Hydrox y - 11.5 Range: 30.0-1 00.0 - ng/mL Flag: L
Fasting Lipid Panel**LC098657 on 07 /26/201 6
Det a i l s
LDL/HDL Ratio - 3.9 Range: 0.0-3.6 - ratio units Flag: H
T. Chol/HDL Ratio - 5.7 Range: 0.0-5.0 - ratio units Flag: H
LDL Cholesterol Calc - 1 31 Range: 0-99 - mg/dL Flag: H
VLDL Cholesterol Cal - 29 Range: 5-40 - mg/dL
HDL Cholesterol - 34 Range: >39 - mg/dL Flag: L
Cholesterol, Total - 1 94 Range: 1 00-1 99 - mg/dL
Trigly cerides - 1 47 Range: 0-1 49 - mg/dL
CMP Comp Metabolic Panel**LC322000 on 07 /26/201 6
Det a i l s
A/G Ratio - 1 .5 Range: 1 .1 -2.5
eGFR If NonAfricn Am - 1 08 Range: >59 - mL/min/1 .7 3
ALT (SGPT) - 7 8 Range: 0-44 - IU/L Flag: H
AST (SGOT) - 37 Range: 0-40 - IU/L
Bilirubin, Total - 0.6 Range: 0.0-1 .2 - mg/dL
Globulin, Total - 3.0 Range: 1 .5-4.5 - g/dL
Albumin, Serum - 4.4 Range: 3.5-5.5 - g/dL
Protein, Total, Serum - 7 .4 Range: 6.0-8.5 - g/dL
BUN/Creatinine Ratio - 1 5 Range: 9-20
Alkaline Phosphatase, S - 49 Range: 39-1 1 7 - IU/L
Calcium, Serum - 9.2 Range: 8.7 -1 0.2 - mg/dL
Creatinine, Serum - 0.7 9 Range: 0.7 6-1 .27 - mg/dL
Glucose, Serum - 1 22 Range: 65-99 - mg/dL Flag: H
Sodium, Serum - 1 38 Range: 1 34-1 44 - mmol/L
Potassium, Serum - 4.3 Range: 3.5-5.2 - mmol/L
Chloride, Serum - 97 Range: 97 -1 08 - mmol/L
Carbon Diox ide, Total - 22 Range: 1 8-29 - mmol/L
BUN - 1 2 Range: 6-24 - mg/dL
eGFR If Africn Am - 1 25 Range: >59 - mL/min/1 .7 3
PSA**LC01 0322 on 07 /26/201 6
Det a i l s
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum - 0.7 Range: 0.0-4.0 - ng/mL

CBC (Includes Diff/Plt)**LC5009 on 07 /26/201 6
Det a i l s
Baso (Absolute) - 0.0 Range: 0.0-0.2 - x 1 0E3/uL
Basos - 0 Range: - %
Eos - 2 Range: - %
Eos (Absolute) - 0.2 Range: 0.0-0.4 - x 1 0E3/uL
Hematocrit - 44.2 Range: 37 .5-51 .0 - %
Hematology Comments: -
Hemoglobin - 1 4.7 Range: 1 2.6-1 7 .7 - g/dL
Immature Cells -
Immature Grans (Abs) - 0.0 Range: 0.0-0.1 - x 1 0E3/uL
Immature Granulocy tes - 0 Range: - %
Lymphs - 21 Range: - %
Lymphs (Absolute) - 2.3 Range: 0.7 -3.1 - x 1 0E3/uL
MCH - 27 .1 Range: 26.6-33.0 - pg
MCHC - 33.3 Range: 31 .5-35.7 - g/dL
MCV - 81 Range: 7 9-97 - fL
Monocy tes - 1 1 Range: - %
Monocy tes(Absolute) - 1 .2 Range: 0.1 -0.9 - x 1 0E3/uL Flag: H
Neutrophils - 66 Range: - %
Neutrophils (Absolute) - 7 .2 Range: 1 .4-7 .0 - x 1 0E3/uL Flag: H
NRBC -
Platelets - 1 89 Range: 1 50-37 9 - x 1 0E3/uL
RBC - 5.43 Range: 4.1 4-5.80 - x 1 0E6/uL
RDW - 1 3.9 Range: 1 2.3-1 5.4 - %
WBC - 1 1 .0 Range: 3.4-1 0.8 - x 1 0E3/uL Flag: H

[verne]

Your Arimadex dose is reliant on the amount of testosterone you are taking. But not HCG it stays the same. Between 250mg and 500mg twice a week is the going advice. 250mg seems to work well

Your doctor really has his own ideas. The B-12 should give you a boost of energy rather fast. I am going to guess that is why he gives it to you. Not that it is a bad thing at worst you just did not need it.

[Nashtide]

The hcg dose has more to do with your goals. To preserve fertility I'd take 250iu EOD. To keep your boys from shrinking, 250iu E3D is sufficient.

[mmont0075]

Nash, If you haven;t been taking hCG, will it be beneficial to start? Or do you have to start taking it before your testicles start to shrink?