T Nation

Started Clomid and Caber. Numbers Improving but I Feel Worse

I’m a 30 years old, a bit overweight but not too much, also have decent muscle mass(1.85, 102kg, my optimal weight is around 90kg).

The last two years I had low-normal T and many of the symptoms(decreased libido(although still good), low-energy, low-motivation, very hard recovery after weight lifting and so on). These were my results at 06.03.2019:

TSH S 1.73 µIU/ml 0.27 - 4.20 ECLIA
LH S 2.65 IU/L 1.70 - 8.60 ECLIA
FSH S 1.13 IU/L 1.5 - 12.40 ECLIA
Prolactin S 352.6 mIU/L 84.80 - 318 ECLIA
Estradiol S 16.04 ng/L 7.63 - 42.60 ECLIA
Testosterone S 14.14 nmol/l 9.90 - 27.80 ECLIA
Free Testosteron S 9.1 ng/l 8.30 - 40.10 RIA
DHEA-s S 8.63 µmol/l 4.34 - 12.20 ECLIA
SHBG S 32.09 nmol/l 18.30 - 54.10 ECLIA
Cortisol (morning) S 303.1 nmol/l 133 - 537 ECLIA
Cortisol (afternoon) S nmol/l 68.20 - 327 ECLIA
PSA S 0.545 ng/ml 0.010 - 1.400 ECLIA
Complete Blood Picture
leukocytes EB 6.43 G/l 3.5 - 10.5 DC+LD
erythrocytes EB 5.11 T/l 4.5 - 5.90 DC-det.
hemoglobin EB 153 g/l 140 - 180 SLS
hematocrit EB 0.45 l/l 0.40 - 0.53 calc
MCV EB 87.3 fl 80 - 96 Calc.
MCH EB 29.9 pg 28 - 33 Calc.
MCHC EB 343 g/l 300 - 360 Calc.
Trpmobociti EB 218 G/l 140 - 440 DC-det.
RDW-SD EB 37.9 fl 35.10 - 43.90 calc.
RDW-CV EB 11.8 % 11 - 14.40 calc.
PDW EB 13.5 fl 9 - 17 calc.
MPV EB 10.7 fl 9.40 - 12.40 calc.
P-LCR EB 31.6 % 13 - 43 calc.
PCT EB 0.23 l/l 0.17 - 0.35 calc.
Total Cholesterol (Chol.) S 3.91 mmol/l 3.5 - 5.20 PHOT
HDL-Cholesterol (HDL-C) S 1.31 mmol/l > 1.5 PHOT
LDL-Cholesterol(LDL-C) S 2.59 mmol/l 0 - 3.35 PHOT
Trigleceridi (Tg) S 0.51 mmol/l 0 - 1.70 PHOT
Glucose S 5.19 mmol/l 2.80 - 6.10 HK
IGF-1 (Somatomedin C ) S* 191 ug/L 98 - 282 CLIA
25-OH-Vitamin D S 41.35 ng/ml > 30 ECLIA

I did NMR of the pituitary suspecting adenom.It turned out that I do not have such, but I have a condition called empty sella syndome. My frontal pituitary is a bit decreased and this is where LH and FSH are secreted. As you can see they are very low in my blood work. So all sounds logical up to here.

I made a consultation with a TRT clinic and they decided to put me on clomid(12.5mg 3 times a week) and caber(0.125mg 2 times a week), they said to test my body. They said I may be able to restore my T production with long-term usage of clomid. But they were not sure It will remain after I stop. And I do not like to take this shit for years. As for the caber, I think they told me I can stop it after certain time and the prolactine levels must remain normal. But I did not understand how much time to take it.

I started this protocol 12 days ago and I decided on my own to add boron(to reduce SHBG increase from clomid) and I took a few times DIM(fearing to raise estrogen from the clomid) and I continue to supplement Vitamin-D, Vitamin-C and ZMA.

Yesterday decided to take preliminary blood tests, only the cheapest, because I will make again full after a month:

Prolactin S 283.5 mIU/L 84.80 - 318 ECLIA
Estradiol S 21.92 ng/L 7.63 - 42.60 ECLIA
Testosterone S 18.15 nmol/l 9.90 - 27.80 ECLIA

Seems clomid and caber treatment work very fast. Testosteron has risen and Prolactin has decreased a bit. The problem is I feel more shitty after started the medications. Especially every time I take clomid I feel weaker, also my errection quality has decreased.

Can I expect a turn in this negative effects from the treatment? How long to keep pushing with the fucking clomid?

The caber my local endo told me I need to take it at least six months to sustain the drop in prolactine. But I fear my levels may become too low for so long time. Caber also makes me feel bad, but not nearly as the clomid.

But the clomid will definetely not be a long term solution for me, I just feel shitty from it. Issue is even the TRT clininc were reluctant to put me on TRT and shut down my system, and my main concern is fertility - I do not have kids yet.

Clomid will only work if you correct what is causing your low testosterone, otherwise levels will return to baseline.

I can’t say I’m surprised at your result, improving numbers and feeling worse which they is a typical response.

You can always add HCG and FSH to increase sperm while on TRT.

Obviously what is causing me low T cannot be corrected unless clomid and caber do some magic.

But my question is more like can I expect to feel better on that clomid shit at some point? Maybe its necessary to stay longer on hight test levels?

Still I can sense only negatives from this treatment

I think that Clomid does not agree with you and you should drop it as soon as possible. My 2 cents. If it’s not helping now, it probably not ever help you.

Is it supposed to make me feel better immediately?

Is it possible my body to need longer time to adjust to it?

Im usually very sensitive even to supplements, when I start a new supplement I have physiological responses to it some time. I know most people dont feel a shit from supplements…

I feel nothing from almost everything. I’m pretty sure most people are just getting placebo effect, honestly. The Clomid should have elevated your mood and energy essentially immediately. A lot of people do not tolerate it well, a lot of men. Drop it and keep the caber for a week and see how that goes.

Clomid only mimics high E2 side effects. Most people feel crap on that alone.

Usually once you start feeling bad on clomid is can only gets worse, some feel good initially but it is short lived.

Sounds encouraging