Start Tren A Without Test?

I am new to this , but I have taken P6 testosterone boosters in 4 months on 1 month off recently did test Cip for a cycle, and now I order tren a , and I am asking if I can start with a small dose or if I need to get test e with it before I can use . Sorry if this is stupid question for here , but I need some help , I just want to be shredded lean cut muscle , thank you in adVance for any help you can give

If you’re using Tren A then you might as well pin it with Test Prop. Both short esters and you can pin at the same time. Yes you need to run at least a TRT level of test with your Tren A.

I am glad you decided to ask before proceeding.

First, ALWAYS have testosterone in any cycle you run even if it is just a basic Testosterone replacement therapy level, so wait to proceed until having test. Simple reason, any steroid will shutdown our natural production and we need test to be healthy and function so we need to replace it when our natural production is shutdown.

Second, NO TREN, NO TREN, NO TREN, you shouldn’t even think about tren until like your right cycle. It should be the last one you ever try.

Third, those “test boosters” are a waist of money. They maybe at best if you have a perfect situation and the wind and humidity are just right, you might get a teenie tiny marginal benefit. They just don’t work, save that money for something that will actually work, like a nice bottle of Testosterone.

What dose of tRen would you recommend?

Thank you , I feel the same way about the boosters helped at first with things but not anymore, that’s why I am gping with test , I did do 2. Vials and had good results, so I am getting back on , thank you so much for your reply !

Thank you very much , my testosterone is at normal levels for my age , due to supplements and working out , but I will take your advice , I just ordered the tren a first then read more and ordered test e .

I had a typo before.
Tren shouldn’t touched until like your eighth cycle. It’s just steroids on steroids.
Seriously go explore all the other common ones first because chances are they will do what you need and then there is no need to risk it with tren. Last tid bit for those other guys reading this, there is progesterone gyno you can get from tren and NO amount of AI can stop it. It requires special ancillary drugs.

Those over the counter test boosters and more specifically anti Aromatase supplements use to actually work to some degree. Unfortunately with all the prohormone legislation now everything is based off of herbal extracts and the like. That situation does not lead to potent products.
Now there are some supplements that do actually help us but don’t go bye those mixed supplement they just charge you dollars a dose for pennies worth of ingredients. If you want to try something go find it as a singular thing not mixed with something, usually the internet is cheapest way to get singular ingredients.

Thank you!

Why do you HAVE to have test in every cycle? You dont need test to be ‘healthy’ on cycle, using AAS is anything but healthy.

This myth needs to die. We need (one can argue its not even a need) a replacement dose of oestrogen in the body, which can come from any other aromatisable AAS.

Test is not needed and does not need to be the base of every cycle, this is something that is regurgitated on other boards over and over again. @now_i_care

SB

I’m not against using tren on a second or third cycle but until you can better lay out a tren cycle and educate yourself a bit more on what else is possibly needed to have on hand while using tren I don’t recommend it.

Thank you

You probably shouldn’t be taking anything until you educate yourself more on what you’re putting in your body. I see nothing but problems in your future without more knowledge.

Thank you I appreciate it. I have been educating myself more with it , I am very familiar with the mediCal field and do research , that’s why I asked here , because I am not as familiar with these different types of steroids and I feel it’s always better to speak with people that are currently taking the therapy. It’s like a doctor telling you to take ibuprofen for your 3 kidney stones when he or she has never had one. They are very familiar with the text but not the real experience. I do appreciate you saying that because it is true , and I have received so much good information on this forum in just a few hours of joining. I actually am surprised about the dosages that are recommended out there , to me they seem high , at least for what I want to get out of it , again that is why I am here to ask the people that have , are or used to do these steroids. The medical industry as a whole, will tell you not to take anything unless it is an absolute must for treatment. Thank you again for your reply and taking the time to send it.

no…

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They have looked at one hormone as a complete replacement for test in the body, it’s ment. The reason ment works as a replacement for test is yes it aromatizes into estrogen but it also can be reduced into DHT. And some of the DHT based hormones don’t actually end up acting like DHT in the body. Winstrol is dht based but it doesn’t even bind to a receptor to do what it does. Without any given hormone being able to be aromatized and reduced then it just can function as a replacement for test. So do we absolutely have to have test in a cycle, nope and plenty of Pros leave it out of their cut cycles but they are knowingly side lining their health. For us regular guys that want a complete life and some reasonable expectation of longevity, then we should have at least a basic test base for any cycle of real length. Just my opinion.

7a methyl 19norotestosterone (ment) has no affinity for the 5a reductase enzyme, it’s androgenicity is unrelated to metabolism via that enzyme (similarly to trenbolone).

Whether it’s a suitable candidate is currently unknown, research has been primarily taken off trest and into dimethandrolone (and derivatives of said hormone), research is for use as male birth control. Given the current preliminary data I can’t see it happening, there is quite the effect on HDL/LDL cholesterol and given the lifestyle of the avg populace, any alteration in lipid profiles is likely to be of serious concern to medical professionals. Furthermore the cardiovascular risk regarding direct effects on the myocardium relating to these specific compounds is entirely unknown, somehow I believe the male birth control will be something far less exciting like testosterone + progesterone, or something non-hormonal (though they need to find something far less invasive than a vasectomy)

winstrol does bind to the androgen receptor in skeletal muscle (producing anabolism) however it’s binding affinity is weak compared to that of stronger compounds, the majority of winstrols anabolism is unrelated to AR binding though, more efficient nitrogen metabolism induced by the drug plays a large role.

I’ve alluded to this many times. Testosterone has a certain subset fo neurological and androgenic side effects that are somewhat unique that SOME other compounds can’t appropriately replicate. However that being said, the notion “when you use other compounds it shuts down you’re test”… so does using testosterone, the fallacy one requires synthetic testosterone to counteract shutdown from… other synthetic derivatives of testosterone is untrue. Sure, synthetics may be more unhealthy with regard to the strain they put on the body, but many compounds could hypothetically be utilised without test

EQ+MAST (why not)
Dbol itself (why not, the shutdown is irrelevant, it may not be optimal with regard to keeping muscle mass due to short duration of use, but it’d work, and coming off it no different to coming off test, either way you’ll be shut-down for a period of time and feel shitty. Dbol provides adequate aromatisation, neurological effects and androgenicity to replace test)

Furthermore (backing up my theory) fluoxymesterone and methyltestosterone are approved for treating hypogonadism, DBOL was previously marketed as use for treatment of hypogonadism, as was mestanolone and a variety of SYNTHETIC testosterone derivitaves. Fluoxymesterone (halotestin, a still FDA approved medication to treat hypogonadism doesn’t even aromatise)

Granted I can’t believe halo would still be commonly prescribed for androgen deficiency given the effects on lipids, potential hepatotoxicity/nephrotoxicity long term, granted doses are low (5-20mg/day) however literature shows a 3x higher BSP retention mg/mg compared to Oxandrolone, so on the higher end it’d be like taking 60mg ox/day long term (however guidelines indicate for initial treatment to be 20mg, titrate down to lowest effective dose, usually 5-10mg/day)

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The thing I read about ment (trestolone and I’m not sure if it’s the same thing as you wrote about) was talking about it being used as make contraceptive and said the part about it being reduced into DHT or something that so closely resembled it that it worked in its place. The whole gist of the article was about why “they” originally thought it would work as a contraceptive and ultimately work in place of test because of the suppression while on it. It also said that ultimately it was abandoned as a possible contraceptive but I don’t remember why. I think I remember where I saw the article I am going to go look.

I’m unsure as to why it was abandoned, I’d hypothesise it could’ve either been due to invasive route of administration (due to potency, contraceptive ment was given via implants, a minor surgical procedure of which wouldn’t have a great approval rating among men lol), that or cardiovascular sides, I’m guessing, they might’ve found a better alternative. I can send some links on new research (19-nortestosterone derivatives) being used as potential male contraceptions if you’d like to take a look, so far it’s… interesting however concerning.

Dimethandrolone undecanoaote (1 mth trial) had side effects such as reduction in HDL, prolongation of QT interval and whatnot, however serious adverse effects were none, that being said long term safety is concerning if contraceptive doses have serious adverse effects on the lipid profile :frowning:

My point exactly. As mentioned, Dbol can be a good replacement as can EQ. Hell even nandrolone is said to aromatise slightly (although I would most likely run TRT test with it).

For a short period of time, eg. a 4-6 week cycle, one can utilise a more anabolic compound than testosterone to gain LBM.

In the past, I have actually done Tren and Mast, no test for 4 weeks for competition prep and felt great so the test base theory is certainly false, IMO.

SB