Start Cutting or Go Progressive

[quote]Siphus wrote:
…I dont want to end up looking like arnold… There is no point in getting that big in my life…
[/quote]

Even if you did, you won’t… so not having that as a goal is irrelevant. Lemme make abundantly clear that I won’t either. I do however fully plan on getting as big as I possibly can.

[quote]Siphus wrote:
If you think I shouldnt be on this site, then please feel free to direct me somewhere else.
[/quote]

I don’t think anybody’s trying to run ya outta here, but what does everybody expect? This is supposed to be “bodybuilding’s thinktank” and there’s been a parade in the several months I’ve been around of guys who want to look like Brad Pitt or Bruce lee.

It’s like going to a monster truck or tractor pull site and asking how to trick out your Mustang.

When I first started training again and wound up here I had underwear model goals myself even though it was contrary to my past very serious experience. As I sat back and read it was Professor X and a couple other guys who nudged me back to my roots though they didn’t even know they were doing it.

The point is your’re short changing yourself. By making your goals so meager you’re limiting your motivation before you even get started.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
This isn’t about looking like the The Hulk. This is about how bodybuilding now stands for “look like some guy who doesn’t even lift weights heavier than 20lbs dumbbells but does lots of crunches”.

Neither of the pictures you threw up would represent “strength” to anyone but someone lacking any strength at all…like most 14 year olds. Those guys are defined…but they are carrying as little muscle mass as possible.

You can’t make me believe in any way that you will work as hard as someone who is actually trying to see how far they can get physically. Your goal is already set LOW. You are almost guaranteed to drop out the moment any life situation makes it the least bit difficult.

The first thing to go will be your gym attendance…because your goal was about as minimal as it could possibly be without looking like someone who simply doesn’t go to a gym.

There is a HUGE difference between having a different goal in bodybuilding…and trying to look like the guys your threw pictures of in here. One is bodybuilding. One isn’t.

Your goals are based on Hollywood fantasy and lighting magic. You don’t need a gym. You just need an Ab Lounge 2000 and a John Basedow DVD.[/quote]

You dont need to fuckiing insult me, dude. I know you are recognizable amongst the T-Nation crowd, as I’ve been reading the site for quite some time now, but you dont know me or who I am.

I have dedicated the last year and 1/2 to working out (i realize its not a long time to some people, but thats a long time to me, being only 22), maybe I did everything wrong, or maybe I didnt, but I did devote all of my time to it. Dont tell me that I am not dedicated.

I ONLY ate what I said earlier for the past year and 1/2, and for a month I only dranks shakes and had ONE “cheat” meal a week. I didnt go on dates, I didnt goto clubs and bars, and I didnt even go out to restraunts for almost the entirety of the year. I lost gym membership becaue of money issues, not because I wasnt dedicated enough.

I’m not trying to insult you, or talk down to anyone, but you are judging me for things that arent even true. Just because I’m skinnier, and I have different goals, doesnt make my questions less important.

Did I mention I’ve also done Muay Thai/ BJJ/ Kickboxing/ Jujutsu for the past 13 years of my life? It IS important for me to get stronger and quicker and leaner, but I just dont want to be 220lbs.

I DO have goals of getting strong, and I DO have goals of getting bigger. I’m not here for a free ride, and a trip to the Richard Simmons gym. All I asked for is for some advice, not to be treated like a piece of crap.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Siphus wrote:
…I dont want to end up looking like arnold… There is no point in getting that big in my life…

Even if you did, you won’t… so not having that as a goal is irrelevant. Lemme make abundantly clear that I won’t either. I do however fully plan on getting as big as I possibly can.

Siphus wrote:
If you think I shouldnt be on this site, then please feel free to direct me somewhere else.

I don’t think anybody’s trying to run ya outta here, but what does everybody expect? This is supposed to be “bodybuilding’s thinktank” and there’s been a parade in the several months I’ve been around of guys who want to look like Brad Pitt or Bruce lee.

It’s like going to a monster truck or tractor pull site and asking how to trick out your Mustang.

When I first started training again and wound up here I had underwear model goals myself even though it was contrary to my past very serious experience. As I sat back and read it was Professor X and a couple guys who nudged me back to my roots though they didn’t even know they were doing it.

The point is your short changing yourself. By making your goals so meager you’re limiting your motivation before you even get started.
[/quote]

I dont think I’m short changing myself… I really do think Christian Bale has the body I’m after. I said already that I thought Brad Pitt was too skinny in that picture.

And like I said earlier, I’m not here to learn how to do slow cardio for an hour a day and ab crunches ala Simmons… I have goals of getting stronger and bigger, just not as big as other people.

you don’t have money for a gym membership but have money for HOT-ROX and the likes? they are supplements, you know…

Maybe I didnt make it clear earlier in my post.

I had plenty of money + gym time in the past year in a half. In the past 3 months or so, I lost my job and havent had any. This has resulted in massive quantities of pizza, hot pockets and ramen and no gym sessions. Hope that cleared things up.

[quote]Siphus wrote:
Maybe I didnt make it clear earlier in my post.

I had plenty of money + gym time in the past year in a half. In the past 3 months or so, I lost my job and havent had any. This has resulted in massive quantities of pizza, hot pockets and ramen and no gym sessions. Hope that cleared things up.[/quote]

You wrote:

That’s not a sign of dedication. You can’t even bench press 200lbs but had made your life that unbalanced? Your results sure as hell don’t justify your approach and there are many of us who are more serious than you who wouldn’t need to avoid all other people in our lives to continue doing it. Are you even in school?

What you just wrote does not define “dedication”. It defines being misinformed and off center emotionally and psychologically.

Why would someone like you avoid restaurants? You are small and weak but thought you needed to avoid the food there?

[quote]Siphus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
This isn’t about looking like the The Hulk. This is about how bodybuilding now stands for “look like some guy who doesn’t even lift weights heavier than 20lbs dumbbells but does lots of crunches”.

Neither of the pictures you threw up would represent “strength” to anyone but someone lacking any strength at all…like most 14 year olds. Those guys are defined…but they are carrying as little muscle mass as possible.

You can’t make me believe in any way that you will work as hard as someone who is actually trying to see how far they can get physically. Your goal is already set LOW. You are almost guaranteed to drop out the moment any life situation makes it the least bit difficult.

The first thing to go will be your gym attendance…because your goal was about as minimal as it could possibly be without looking like someone who simply doesn’t go to a gym.

There is a HUGE difference between having a different goal in bodybuilding…and trying to look like the guys your threw pictures of in here. One is bodybuilding. One isn’t.

Your goals are based on Hollywood fantasy and lighting magic. You don’t need a gym. You just need an Ab Lounge 2000 and a John Basedow DVD.

You dont need to fuckiing insult me, dude. I know you are recognizable amongst the T-Nation crowd, as I’ve been reading the site for quite some time now, but you dont know me or who I am.

I have dedicated the last year and 1/2 to working out (i realize its not a long time to some people, but thats a long time to me, being only 22), maybe I did everything wrong, or maybe I didnt, but I did devote all of my time to it. Dont tell me that I am not dedicated.

I ONLY ate what I said earlier for the past year and 1/2, and for a month I only dranks shakes and had ONE “cheat” meal a week. I didnt go on dates, I didnt goto clubs and bars, and I didnt even go out to restraunts for almost the entirety of the year. I lost gym membership becaue of money issues, not because I wasnt dedicated enough.

I’m not trying to insult you, or talk down to anyone, but you are judging me for things that arent even true. Just because I’m skinnier, and I have different goals, doesnt make my questions less important.

Did I mention I’ve also done Muay Thai/ BJJ/ Kickboxing/ Jujutsu for the past 13 years of my life? It IS important for me to get stronger and quicker and leaner, but I just dont want to be 220lbs.

I DO have goals of getting strong, and I DO have goals of getting bigger. I’m not here for a free ride, and a trip to the Richard Simmons gym. All I asked for is for some advice, not to be treated like a piece of crap.

[/quote]

How did I know this guy was gonna pull out the martial arts card?

Dude: you asked for advice, people gave you advice what you didn’t want to hear, and then you acted like a little whiny punk.

Here is the question to ask yourself: What is my form and function?

All you’ve done so far is tell us what you DON’T want.

(An by the way, if your response contains the word “functional”, somone wil be by your mother’s house later today to eat you.)

[quote]Siphus wrote:
I dont think I’m short changing myself… I really do think Christian Bale has the body I’m after. I said already that I thought Brad Pitt was too skinny in that picture.

And like I said earlier, I’m not here to learn how to do slow cardio for an hour a day and ab crunches ala Simmons… I have goals of getting stronger and bigger, just not as big as other people.[/quote]

OK, train like you were trying to look like Arnold and slow down when you get where you want. Or you can take 10 years to even look like Christian Bale.

I’ve haven’t said anything like this since coming here about anything or anybody, but CT’s bulking article was ill conceived in it’s presentation. Nobody who’s not at least somewhere between intermediate and advanced should worry about anything in that piece that WAS useful.

On a more general level, playing the numbers/time line game is the death knell for anybody without A LOT of knowledge and experience.

In other words concepts like you can only gain X amount in this amount of time. Or you can only get “this” strong in X amount of time etc. The worst is when someone says I want to lose down to this weight, especially if they put a time frame on that one.

This is the exact wrong way to approach training until your years in with a very precise knowledge of physiology, nutrition and the way those affect your own body.

It just is. It gives a false sense of sophistication and immediately sets people up for failure with either unrealistic expectations or as is the more usual case recently, expectations that aren’t high enough.

New guys today are way overthinking everything.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
New guys today are way overthinking everything.[/quote]

You forgot undertraining…

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
New guys today are way overthinking everything.

You forgot undertraining…[/quote]

Maybe my frame of reference is too narrow to generalize from, but overthinking, undertraining and undereating seem to be the unholy trinity nowadays.

There are exceptions of course. Sometimes you see a noob with a proposed routine that would hospitalize most vets, but I cannot remember offhand a single thread from anybody who was eating too much.

I also think the usual advice of “start reading lots of stuff” is a recipe for disaster for a lot of guys that leads directly into the overthinking thing.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I’ve haven’t said anything like this since coming here about anything or anybody, but CT’s bulking article was ill conceived in it’s presentation. Nobody who’s not at least somewhere between intermediate and advanced should worry about anything in that piece that WAS useful.
[/quote]

I’ve been saying that. I wrote that in the discussion under that same article and made the statement that all it will do is misinform the wrong people. CT has yet to respond to this directly, and honestly, if the authors here aren’t looking at the forums at all to see the effect their work is having, how much good are they actually doing?

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
New guys today are way overthinking everything.

You forgot undertraining…

Maybe my frame of reference is too narrow to generalize from, but overthinking, undertraining and undereating seem to be the unholy trinity nowadays.

There are exceptions of course. Sometimes you see a noob with a proposed routine that would hospitalize most vets, but I cannot remember offhand a single thread from anybody who was eating too much.

I also think the usual advice of “start reading lots of stuff” is a recipe for disaster for a lot of guys that leads directly into the overthinking thing.[/quote]

The OP alone has avoided all social events in his life as if he was training for the Olympics…but he can’t even bench 200lbs which is about as minimal a weight for a serious trainer that you can get aside from straight newbies and beginners.

Why are beginners approaching training this way? This kid is UNDERweight and martial arts is to blame? I’ve known some pretty damn muscular black belts. My guess is, they would kick the asses of most of the scrawny wannbes very easily.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

The OP alone has avoided all social events in his life as if he was training for the Olympics…but he can’t even bench 200lbs which is about as minimal a weight for a serious trainer that you can get aside from straight newbies and beginners.

Why are beginners approaching training this way? This kid is UNDERweight and martial arts is to blame? I’ve known some pretty damn muscular black belts. My guess is, they would kick the asses of most of the scrawny wannbes very easily.[/quote]

Technically, I dont think I’m underweight. Why are martial arts to blame about anything? I just stated that its important to me to be stronger, just not overkill.

I used to only be able to bench like 140, and before my 3 month rut, i was up to like 190ish. Thats almost a 25% increase… Thats pretty good for my first go around, I would think… Not to mention curls, squats, dips, chin ups, etc almost doubled.

First you said I wasnt dedicated enough, now you’re telling me I was training for the Olympics and overtraining… 3 days a week training, MA two days out of the week, little alcohol consumption, and I made most of my meals because I was working full time. Why is that overtraining?

Wait… why the hell are we even talking about this anyways? Who cares what I used to do or not do. I just wanted to know about a bulking/cutting cycle or a more even approach. I got that answer a while ago, and I’m not here to defend or justify my beliefs on why I goto the gym and what i aspire to be.

[quote]Siphus wrote:

First you said I wasnt dedicated enough, now you’re telling me I was training for the Olympics and overtraining… 3 days a week training, MA two days out of the week, little alcohol consumption, and I made most of my meals because I was working full time. Why is that overtraining?
[/quote]

I didn’t write anything about “overtraining”. I said your perspective and your actions were UNBALANCED. Why the hell would a beginner who isn’t even that strong and who isn’t making much more progress than “very AVERAGE” for a beginner start avoiding restaurants or going on dates? That isn’t “dedication”. That’s just stupid. Had you actually approached this with the goal to make large physical changes, you would have been eating more regardless. Avoiding restaurants and social outings altogether wouldn’t even be an issue…because you would need the food anyway. I could see if you had gained 50lbs, but you didn’t. You are skinny for your height and apparently want to stay that way…just with abs. Who the hell are you fooling because it isn’t us.

I’m not trying to fool anyone? I gained almost 35lbs in a few months… I thought I was doing pretty good. Its obvious to everyone that I messed up along the line somewhere, but I dont see why you have to judge me harshly. Maybe I didnt workout correctly, or I ate the wrong foods or something, I dont know…

I just dont wanna look like I’m smuggling midgets under my skin, but I dont wanna be as skinny as I am right now either… I still dont understand why you think Christian Bale is skinny??

[quote]Siphus wrote:
I’m not trying to fool anyone? I gained almost 35lbs in a few months… I thought I was doing pretty good. Its obvious to everyone that I messed up along the line somewhere, but I dont see why you have to judge me harshly. Maybe I didnt workout correctly, or I ate the wrong foods or something, I dont know…

I just dont wanna look like I’m smuggling midgets under my skin, but I dont wanna be as skinny as I am right now either… I still dont understand why you think Christian Bale is skinny??[/quote]

Christian Bale is not skinny in Batman Begins. He IS skinny in the picture you posted from American Psycho. In your first post it says you started at 185lbs and are now 190lbs. Even at your heaviest you were 205lbs which is a 20lbs gain (about what most beginners could expect if they ate enough to gain). Where did 35lbs come in? I showed you exactly where you messed up…by cutting off all human contact and saying that this represents “dedication”. How old are you?

I’m beginning to cringe at every one of his posts.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Christian Bale is not skinny in Batman Begins. He IS skinny in the picture you posted from American Psycho.[/quote]

Yeah but he was ripped in the machinist :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Siphus wrote:
Thats strange you said 15" arms, cuz mine are 16! lol.

I have no need to be massive.
Perhaps an underwear model IS a good example… lol I’ve always strived to have a body like:

http://www.sexyhollywoodactors.com/profile_pics/christian_bale.jpg

or god forbid!:

Although that picture has been done to death before… and everyone agrees hes too skinny… I think you get my drift. It might seem like an easy goal to some of you meso’s, but not for me :slight_smile:

But anyways, most of my questions have been answered, and then some, and I appreciate your figurative slap in the face and kick in the ass to help me get back into gear. Thanks, again.

Is this what represents what has taken over this site? This is a BODYBUILDING forum. I truly think some of you have gotten lost.[/quote]

Prof X, I truly appreciate your commitment to this site and the forums however, in my opinion the whole site has changed. Look at the articles focusing on muscle shaping and not getting too big. Look at the supplements–compared to even a few years ago… But alas all things change, continue your fight.