T Nation

Staple Supplements? Bulking/CLA Question


#1

What are the basic and staple supplements that you take whether cutting or bulking?

I was reading a Layne Norton article and he suggests that to reduce fat gain on a bulk it is advantageous to take fat loss supplements such as CLA or Sesamin. What do you make of this?


#2

Staple Supplements for anytime:

Whey Isolate/(Casein Hydrolysate) if possible

Micellar Casein

Fish Oil

Creatine

Caffeine

BCAA/L-Leucine


#3

[quote]X7502 wrote:
What are the basic and staple supplements that you take whether cutting or bulking?

I was reading a Layne Norton article and he suggests that to reduce fat gain on a bulk it is advantageous to take fat loss supplements such as CLA or Sesamin. What do you make of this?[/quote]

Layne is a smart guy, but I think just like a cut phase, you need to have you diet dialed in and eating the right amount of calories, otherwise you could end up putting on too much fat.

For me, my supplements stay the same, I just eat more food during the day.


#4

[quote]Da Vinci wrote:
Staple Supplements for anytime:

Whey Isolate/(Casein Hydrosylate) if possible

Micellar Casein

Fish Oil

Creatine

Caffeine

BCAA/L-Leucine[/quote]

+1

Although I don’t need as much caffeine as i do during a cut. I just have an abundance of energy from the increase in food intake.


#5

[quote]tw0scoops2 wrote:
Da Vinci wrote:
Staple Supplements for anytime:

Whey Isolate/(Casein Hydrosylate) if possible

Micellar Casein

Fish Oil

Creatine

Caffeine

BCAA/L-Leucine

+1

Although I don’t need as much caffeine as i do during a cut. I just have an abundance of energy from the increase in food intake.[/quote]

I’d like to throw in Superfood as well.


#6

Thanks for the information, it’s helped a lot. Layne Norton also advocates consuming BCAA’s for post workout as opposed to Whey/Maltoxdextrin etc. I was debating whether or not to try this, but I’m thinking with someone who is wanting to bulk, surely your getting more calories from your PWO shake than BCAA’s? And how effective is BCAA post-workout compared to a Whey/Maltodextrin shake? Would it be a bad idea to consume BCAA a long with Whey because the amino acid uptake will compete with one another? I would appreciate any information as to how you take BCAA’s as well, in what dosages and during what times of the day you take a BCAA supplements.


#7

[quote]X7502 wrote:
Thanks for the information, it’s helped a lot. Layne Norton also advocates consuming BCAA’s for post workout as opposed to Whey/Maltoxdextrin etc. I was debating whether or not to try this, but I’m thinking with someone who is wanting to bulk, surely your getting more calories from your PWO shake than BCAA’s? And how effective is BCAA post-workout compared to a Whey/Maltodextrin shake? Would it be a bad idea to consume BCAA a long with Whey because the amino acid uptake will compete with one another? I would appreciate any information as to how you take BCAA’s as well, in what dosages and during what times of the day you take a BCAA supplements.[/quote]

He advocates consuming BCAA’s post workout to provoke a protein synthesis response and then once that response has occurred, consuming your post workout meal. My understanding is the actual purpose of consuming the BCAA’s is actually just to ingest an adequate amount of l-leucine, the amino acid thought to be mainly responsible for provoking protein synthesis.

So if you are planning on bulking, post workout I would consume either BCAA’s or L-Leucine (I prefer Biotest for L-Leucine) with some maltodextrin, waiting 15-30 minutes, then having your post workout protein. Layne estimated that 3.2g of Leucine is needed to break the threshold and promote protein synthesis…but the study this was based on was done on 155-165 lbs individuals. If you’re obtaining your leucine from BCAA’s, those weighing close to 155-156 lbs would need 15 grams for the same effect. Obviously, if you weigh more than this, you should get slightly more of either for optimum results.


#8

While I think that most ‘fat burning’ supps are just icing on the cake, and usually make a very negligible difference until you get into the single digit bodyfat levels (except for maybe a little kick in the ass when you don’t feel like training), my staples when cutting are:

-Good protein powder to take between meals to ensure 2 hour feeding windows
-BCAAS peri-workout to prevent muscle loss
-Fish Oils - I’ve found that they help me retain muscle/burn fat as well. Basically I just appear to have a better composition when popping these.
-Creatine - yes I know it makes you retain water, but having more water in your muscles creates a more anabolic state, and creatine has been shown to help reduce muscle loss when a limb has to be immobilized in a cast (proof enough for me).

S


#9

I’m always blown away every time I see your avatar Stu, you’ve really done a great job with yourself…out of curiosity, as I noticed you talking about the 2 hour window with respect to eating, have you happened to read the article by layne norton which I was referring to touching on protein timing?


#10

Thanks for the kind words bro. I can admit that I was a little shocked myself seeing pics from the contest. Makes me think back on all the times in the past when I’d consider cutting down, and then decide “Nah, I like being 200+ lbs too much”.

I did read the article, and I do respect Layne a lot. It’s not like he’s making some BS argument, he does back up what he’s proposing. However, it is kinda hard to go against what has pretty much become accepted Dogma by this point in Bodybuilding history. Even from personal experience, I know I wouldn’t have made as many of the gains that I have if I didn’t adhere to the eating guidelines I have been following for years now.

One part that really did stand out with the article though, was his breaking down the Leucine content of various protein rich foods, essentially pointing out that you can get away with less quantity of one protein source vs another simply because of the signaling ability of the leucine content (it makes so much sense, but who would stop and think about it? -lol). It also flies against (and this is not a scientific reason!) the approach used by sumo wrestlers who eat larger infrequent meals because they WANT to gain fat. Of course they’re not making use of any between-feedings Leucine dosing, so it makes one wonder what would happen if they were to integrate such an approach.

S