I’m with Poliquin on this one.
If you’re already doing deadlifts and barbell squats I don’t think you have to worry much about your “core” being under trained.
Seeing how I do deadlifts and squats I don’t often feel, unless I feel like doing them to break the monotony, the need to incorporate bent-over bb row or standing OH presses.
I do mine seated. Tried them standing for ages and made precious little progress, started doing them seated and my shoulder/overhead strength and development exploded. Still nothing special, but 200 for reps will be mine very shortly.
Anything that allows to make progress and put lots of weight on the bar is tops, in my opinion at least.
something else to consider.compare your legs and your spine as two springs in a series. if you remove one spring, the other gets double the compression. if you start to hit some heavy weight with your presses, the risk of back injury increases considerably with seated presses.
personally i prefer the clean and press with a kettlebell, or arnold press with dumbells, as you can increase tension and get “tight” before the press, enabling you to press more weight.
if you think you can push more weight seated (but unsupported) try this for a while and you will be pleasantly surprised.
supported seated presses are slightly different,think more extreme incline bench press, because you tend to push your upper back into the back of the seat as you press (like an incline bench) hence you move more weight. this is how i trained shoulders for years until switching to the clean and press. would never go back to them now, far more bang for your buck with the clean and press.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
I just need to know this am I the only person whose abs don’t get sore doing anything but ab exercises?[/quote]
try rock climbing, you wont know what hit ya.
[quote]alit4 wrote:
something else to consider.compare your legs and your spine as two springs in a series. if you remove one spring, the other gets double the compression. if you start to hit some heavy weight with your presses, the risk of back injury increases considerably with seated presses.
personally i prefer the clean and press with a kettlebell, or arnold press with dumbells, as you can increase tension and get “tight” before the press, enabling you to press more weight.
if you think you can push more weight seated (but unsupported) try this for a while and you will be pleasantly surprised.
supported seated presses are slightly different,think more extreme incline bench press, because you tend to push your upper back into the back of the seat as you press (like an incline bench) hence you move more weight. this is how i trained shoulders for years until switching to the clean and press. would never go back to them now, far more bang for your buck with the clean and press.[/quote]
And I take it those clean and presses have resulted in you sporting a pair of serious bodybuilder-shoulders ? Because, don’t get me wrong, but from your stats it doesn’t sound like that’s the case yet.
And most guys with great shoulders love high-inclines and use them as their main pressing exercises.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
alit4 wrote:
something else to consider.compare your legs and your spine as two springs in a series. if you remove one spring, the other gets double the compression. if you start to hit some heavy weight with your presses, the risk of back injury increases considerably with seated presses.
personally i prefer the clean and press with a kettlebell, or arnold press with dumbells, as you can increase tension and get “tight” before the press, enabling you to press more weight.
if you think you can push more weight seated (but unsupported) try this for a while and you will be pleasantly surprised.
supported seated presses are slightly different,think more extreme incline bench press, because you tend to push your upper back into the back of the seat as you press (like an incline bench) hence you move more weight. this is how i trained shoulders for years until switching to the clean and press. would never go back to them now, far more bang for your buck with the clean and press.
And I take it those clean and presses have resulted in you sporting a pair of serious bodybuilder-shoulders ? Because, don’t get me wrong, but from your stats it doesn’t sound like that’s the case yet.
And most guys with great shoulders love high-inclines and use them as their main pressing exercises.
[/quote]
not yet dude, but getting there slowly. only been doing them for about a year so far and have concentrated in building some serious strength in them so far. intend to add the size in the next year or two. as we all know, the size takes a lot longer. especially as i’m approaching 40. if i had been doing this 20 years ago i’m sure the gains would have come quicker.
edit: the stats are a little out of date now. the vid is a little more currrent.
[quote]alit4 wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
alit4 wrote:
something else to consider.compare your legs and your spine as two springs in a series. if you remove one spring, the other gets double the compression. if you start to hit some heavy weight with your presses, the risk of back injury increases considerably with seated presses.
personally i prefer the clean and press with a kettlebell, or arnold press with dumbells, as you can increase tension and get “tight” before the press, enabling you to press more weight.
if you think you can push more weight seated (but unsupported) try this for a while and you will be pleasantly surprised.
supported seated presses are slightly different,think more extreme incline bench press, because you tend to push your upper back into the back of the seat as you press (like an incline bench) hence you move more weight. this is how i trained shoulders for years until switching to the clean and press. would never go back to them now, far more bang for your buck with the clean and press.
And I take it those clean and presses have resulted in you sporting a pair of serious bodybuilder-shoulders ? Because, don’t get me wrong, but from your stats it doesn’t sound like that’s the case yet.
And most guys with great shoulders love high-inclines and use them as their main pressing exercises.
not yet dude, but getting there slowly. only been doing them for about a year so far and have concentrated in building some serious strength in them so far. intend to add the size in the next year or two. as we all know, the size takes a lot longer. especially as i’m approaching 40. if i had been doing this 20 years ago i’m sure the gains would have come quicker.
edit: the stats are a little out of date now. the vid is a little more currrent.[/quote]
Fair enough.
Out of curiosity, what numbers were you putting up on the high-inclines before ditching them?
only about 22-24 kg dumbells for 10- 12 reps, 3- 5 sets. nothing to write home about.
[quote]alit4 wrote:
only about 22-24 kg dumbells for 10- 12 reps, 3- 5 sets. nothing to write home about.[/quote]
Well, that’s no surprise that your shoulders didn’t exactly blow up to cannonballs 
All depends on what kind of progress you make on the exercise…
Anyway, good luck with your training.
i think standing strengthens your abs/lower back more than seated actually
i’m sure that they are both very beneficial. i do standing barbell and seated dumbell
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
alit4 wrote:
only about 22-24 kg dumbells for 10- 12 reps, 3- 5 sets. nothing to write home about.
Well, that’s no surprise that your shoulders didn’t exactly blow up to cannonballs All depends on what kind of progress you make on the exercise…
Anyway, good luck with your training.
[/quote]
yeh tell me about it! spent far too long at that gym heaviest free weights they had lol! there was a seated shouder press machine that went to 75 kilos but it was preety meaningless to be honest and i maxed that out ages ago so i never really count that. been the last year in a proper gym with decent big strong guys and good kit, makes all the difference.
thanks for the comment.
[quote]alit4 wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
alit4 wrote:
only about 22-24 kg dumbells for 10- 12 reps, 3- 5 sets. nothing to write home about.
Well, that’s no surprise that your shoulders didn’t exactly blow up to cannonballs All depends on what kind of progress you make on the exercise…
Anyway, good luck with your training.
yeh tell me about it! spent far too long at that gym heaviest free weights they had lol! there was a seated shouder press machine that went to 75 kilos but it was preety meaningless to be honest and i maxed that out ages ago so i never really count that. been the last year in a proper gym with decent big strong guys and good kit, makes all the difference.
thanks for the comment.[/quote]
I feel your pain man, we have maybe 3 well-equipped gyms in all of Germany (not counting the ones which do not allow “bodybuilders and other rude people”).
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
I feel your pain man, we have maybe 3 well-equipped gyms in all of Germany (not counting the ones which do not allow “bodybuilders and other rude people”).
[/quote]Hahaha, how do they determine if you are allowed to train there? Not weighing more than 210lbs? Do they do a personality test? 
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
I just need to know this am I the only person whose abs don’t get sore doing anything but ab exercises?[/quote]
no you’re not the only one
i don’t feel any DOMS or weakness in my abs the day after my shoulder day
but i feel DOMS in my abs for 3 days straight after ab/core day
If you play sports then I would say standing press is more beneficial. Seated press for bodybuilding purposes.
I do more standing press because when am I ever going to try and lift anything over my head while seated? I am never going to. same with sports, I am never going to play a sport sitting on my butt. Standing presses will help with stability and balance as well.
I also train strongman so I prefer standing presses.
[quote]pinkponyz wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
I feel your pain man, we have maybe 3 well-equipped gyms in all of Germany (not counting the ones which do not allow “bodybuilders and other rude people”).
Hahaha, how do they determine if you are allowed to train there? Not weighing more than 210lbs? Do they do a personality test?
[/quote]
It’s simple. If you train, they’ll throw you out. If you work out, they’ll let you stay.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
pinkponyz wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
I feel your pain man, we have maybe 3 well-equipped gyms in all of Germany (not counting the ones which do not allow “bodybuilders and other rude people”).
Hahaha, how do they determine if you are allowed to train there? Not weighing more than 210lbs? Do they do a personality test?
It’s simple. If you train, they’ll throw you out. If you work out, they’ll let you stay.[/quote]
thats mental !!! mind you could be a great chance for someone to open a good gym!!!
back to the thread, its what ever one you prefer we all are different, as long as your making good progression its what works for you, thats the thing that make a great body its knowing what works for you and kicking the ass oot it,
[quote]esk221 wrote:
I prefer seated because I can use more weight.[/quote]
…which is what builds big strong muscles. I am in the gym to make progress, not to impress everyone with how I clean a weight and press it.
So what about the spinal compression. Your spine gets alot more compressed from heavy ass squats and deadlifts than a shoulder press.