Staley's Myth About Deadlift Myths

So intentionally using as much leg drive as possible when deadlifting is somehow wrong? This just doesn’t make sense, and your smart-assed remarks aren’t helping either. It appears that you and Staley may both be wrong, but at least he isn’t an asshole.

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I still think you’re cool Kenny.

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Your masochistic tendencies are showing

You don’t have to act out for attention chris! I’ll still be your friend too.

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Do y’all understand that Kenny is saying the spinal erecters break the weight off the floor by hyperextending the back before the legs take over? He’s not talking about cues.

then he’s not actually addressing what the article said in the first place, he’s going on a tangent. Which doesn’t make sense given how he titled the thread.

Staley clearly says ‘the cue is enormously helpful to some of his clients struggling with the deadlift’. I don’t see what could possibly be considered controversial about that. For ME, the cue doesn’t really translate at all, but if it helps some beginners (which is basically who staley works with in the first place), if that’s been his experience, I’m not sure what there is to argue with.

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My only issue with Staley’s article is the way that he phrases it and the lack of context, something like “looking at the deadlift as a push rather than a pull may help some lifters” would be more appropriate in my opinion. It’s not necessarily wrong, but at some point you do have to pull or you just won’t lift the bar.

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I mean I totally agree, I don’t think of it as a push at all. That doesn’t register with me. If I’m teaching someone to deadlift, I most often describe it as a hip hinge, tell them it’s both a legs and back exercise so you will likely feel it in both and that’s ok, etc. I’ve never said ‘think about pushing the floor away’. BUT. I’m also a shitty coach. lol.

In general, as far as Staley is concerned, I have really mixed opinions. I honestly don’t know if he’s good at what he does or not. I know he stays relevant via articles and training, and I know he has a lot of beginner/intermediate lifters who get something out of his advice, but as far as I’m aware, he doesn’t have, nor has he had, any really strong clients. Sooooo that’s a problem. But if all he’s really trying to do is get people new to lifting on the right track, he definitely seems to do that well enough.

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I’ve described it as moving like one of these things

image

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Kenny has great knowledge with experience and results on the platform. He’s definitely a valuable person to have around but he’s also an ass sometimes :stuck_out_tongue:

I think it’s going to depend a lot on your setup. I pull sumo and as I said I simultaneously push into the floor and pull the bar, that’s what works for me. For conventional, some people have their shins more or less vertical at the start and they won’t be using a whole lot of leg drive while others have their knees way over the bar and are definitely using their quads to get the bar moving. What is best is what works best for you.

Only sometimes?

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subheadings

I like his subheadings.

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I know a couple other dudes just as prickly as he is.

Anyway, Kenny is alright because he usually agrees with me.

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Asshole

But he is an asshole.

yea honestly I often forget sumo even exists, lol. I don’t even think of sumo as the same lift in any way. Sumo is its own entity, as the mechanics are entirely different. I’m not going to pretend to know what cues make sense with it.

curious, who are some really good deadlifters who do this? A year or so ago, I had gotten in the habit of doing exactly this, and working to get more vertical shins fixed the issues I was having.

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(I feel very “controversial” today, or is it “confrontational”??)

My opinion on Staley changed when I randomly came across his name on a USAPL banned list -the refused to be tested list…say what? Plus when he competed in masters weightlifting, he used Rippetoe as his coach.

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I don’t think sumo is drastically different unless it’s with your toes out to the plates and you have really long arms, otherwise it’s pretty close to conventional with the main difference (other than stance) being more quad involvement. I use a medium stance, if you see my deadlift from the side it looks like it could be conventional. Mostly because my leverages just aren’t that great.

This one comes to mind:

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That’s actually how I first heard of him. Apparently he was going around telling people he was on TRT and making online posts about it and then went to USAPL nationals. Not a very bright idea. He could have competed in any other fed, but his lifts would have looked even more mediocre in the untested division.

And as for Rippetoe as a weightlifting coach, I can only shake my head. Did he make him use low bar squats while looking down?

Pete Rubish is one that comes to mind.