T Nation

Staley Primed for Sept. 8, 2005

OK team,

I’m here for a few hours, how may I be of service?

PS: Anyone see Transporter 2 yet? If not, I highly recommend it!

Charles, barring any personal aversion to direct delt training, what would you suggest for the best size gains? Various charts, and I’m thinking of the one in Serious Strength Training by Bompa, show that movements such as laterals only get 57% activation etc…

For all the other bodyparts, high levels of over 90% can be achieved with some movement or other, but what about delts?

DH

Hey Disc,

I wish I could provide you with something more “out of the box” than what I am going to say, but I just think that heavy compound movements such as presses, dips, & chins for parameters like 4-6 sets of 4-6 reps per set are the best way to go. Now if you’re “arm dominant” so to speak, you may need to do direct work I guess. I like doing laterals, bent laterals, in accelerative, choppy style believe it or not, at least concentrically. I think it creates higher tensions and therefore, growth

[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
Charles, barring any personal aversion to direct delt training, what would you suggest for the best size gains? Various charts, and I’m thinking of the one in Serious Strength Training by Bompa, show that movements such as laterals only get 57% activation etc…

For all the other bodyparts, high levels of over 90% can be achieved with some movement or other, but what about delts?

DH
[/quote]

The rapid concentrics was something I had considered, but was at odds with myself since the fiber distribution of the delts are so slow twitch. Didn’t know if static holds might be better for growth. I am strong in the pecs and tri’s so I seem to take much of my overhead work on the tri’s and bench work on pec’s and tri’s. My delts seem to get a smoke break. They are large, but they are one bodypart I think that look really cool even when “disproportionate”. Kinda like forearms and calves…just can’t be too big. ;-).

Given the above, would you suggest a focus on isolation moves or perhaps pre-exhaust. I want to do some focus work in an EDT frame.

DH

[quote]Charles Staley wrote:
Hey Disc,

I wish I could provide you with something more “out of the box” than what I am going to say, but I just think that heavy compound movements such as presses, dips, & chins for parameters like 4-6 sets of 4-6 reps per set are the best way to go. Now if you’re “arm dominant” so to speak, you may need to do direct work I guess. I like doing laterals, bent laterals, in accelerative, choppy style believe it or not, at least concentrically. I think it creates higher tensions and therefore, growth

Disc Hoss wrote:
Charles, barring any personal aversion to direct delt training, what would you suggest for the best size gains? Various charts, and I’m thinking of the one in Serious Strength Training by Bompa, show that movements such as laterals only get 57% activation etc…

For all the other bodyparts, high levels of over 90% can be achieved with some movement or other, but what about delts?

DH

[/quote]

Nah, I’m stickin’ to my story. Regarding slow twitch: I say train 'em like fast twitch, anyway. If there are no fast fibers there, the slow ones will have to pick up the slack. If there are fast, you’ll be assured that they get trained!

[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
The rapid concentrics was something I had considered, but was at odds with myself since the fiber distribution of the delts are so slow twitch. Didn’t know if static holds might be better for growth. I am strong in the pecs and tri’s so I seem to take much of my overhead work on the tri’s and bench work on pec’s and tri’s. My delts seem to get a smoke break. They are large, but they are one bodypart I think that look really cool even when “disproportionate”. Kinda like forearms and calves…just can’t be too big. ;-).

Given the above, would you suggest a focus on isolation moves or perhaps pre-exhaust. I want to do some focus work in an EDT frame.

DH

Charles Staley wrote:
Hey Disc,

I wish I could provide you with something more “out of the box” than what I am going to say, but I just think that heavy compound movements such as presses, dips, & chins for parameters like 4-6 sets of 4-6 reps per set are the best way to go. Now if you’re “arm dominant” so to speak, you may need to do direct work I guess. I like doing laterals, bent laterals, in accelerative, choppy style believe it or not, at least concentrically. I think it creates higher tensions and therefore, growth

Disc Hoss wrote:
Charles, barring any personal aversion to direct delt training, what would you suggest for the best size gains? Various charts, and I’m thinking of the one in Serious Strength Training by Bompa, show that movements such as laterals only get 57% activation etc…

For all the other bodyparts, high levels of over 90% can be achieved with some movement or other, but what about delts?

DH

[/quote]

Thanks. Of coure this leads me to something I’d really like your opinion on…an injury.

About 3 weeks ago I hurt my shoulder doing close grips. I had worked up to 320 after a s-l-o-w 8 sets. Trying to find a new max. There was a sucking sound and I sprained and/or tore my shoulder. I’ve got to get an MRI but is there anyway you can give me a few “tests” to see if I have a serious impingement issue or a tear, etc…

I haven’t trained in 6 weeks and it’s killing me. 3 from work demand and now 3 from the injury. My supraspinatus seems VERY weak and seems taxed even with doing 2.5lb shoulder horn work. It seems to have no stamina or strength whatsoever.

Advice?

DH

[quote]Charles Staley wrote:
Nah, I’m stickin’ to my story. Regarding slow twitch: I say train 'em like fast twitch, anyway. If there are no fast fibers there, the slow ones will have to pick up the slack. If there are fast, you’ll be assured that they get trained!

Disc Hoss wrote:
The rapid concentrics was something I had considered, but was at odds with myself since the fiber distribution of the delts are so slow twitch. Didn’t know if static holds might be better for growth. I am strong in the pecs and tri’s so I seem to take much of my overhead work on the tri’s and bench work on pec’s and tri’s. My delts seem to get a smoke break. They are large, but they are one bodypart I think that look really cool even when “disproportionate”. Kinda like forearms and calves…just can’t be too big. ;-).

Given the above, would you suggest a focus on isolation moves or perhaps pre-exhaust. I want to do some focus work in an EDT frame.

DH

Charles Staley wrote:
Hey Disc,

I wish I could provide you with something more “out of the box” than what I am going to say, but I just think that heavy compound movements such as presses, dips, & chins for parameters like 4-6 sets of 4-6 reps per set are the best way to go. Now if you’re “arm dominant” so to speak, you may need to do direct work I guess. I like doing laterals, bent laterals, in accelerative, choppy style believe it or not, at least concentrically. I think it creates higher tensions and therefore, growth

Disc Hoss wrote:
Charles, barring any personal aversion to direct delt training, what would you suggest for the best size gains? Various charts, and I’m thinking of the one in Serious Strength Training by Bompa, show that movements such as laterals only get 57% activation etc…

For all the other bodyparts, high levels of over 90% can be achieved with some movement or other, but what about delts?

DH

[/quote]

Well I think you can trust your intuition on this one (sorry to hear about this BTW). Aside from that, edema/swelling can be a good indicator of the damage, and basic functionality as well. No tests other than that though…keep the swelling down the best you can until the MRI.

[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
Thanks. Of coure this leads me to something I’d really like your opinion on…an injury.

About 3 weeks ago I hurt my shoulder doing close grips. I had worked up to 320 after a s-l-o-w 8 sets. Trying to find a new max. There was a sucking sound and I sprained and/or tore my shoulder. I’ve got to get an MRI but is there anyway you can give me a few “tests” to see if I have a serious impingement issue or a tear, etc…

I haven’t trained in 6 weeks and it’s killing me. 3 from work demand and now 3 from the injury. My supraspinatus seems VERY weak and seems taxed even with doing 2.5lb shoulder horn work. It seems to have no stamina or strength whatsoever.

Advice?

DH
Charles Staley wrote:
Nah, I’m stickin’ to my story. Regarding slow twitch: I say train 'em like fast twitch, anyway. If there are no fast fibers there, the slow ones will have to pick up the slack. If there are fast, you’ll be assured that they get trained!

Disc Hoss wrote:
The rapid concentrics was something I had considered, but was at odds with myself since the fiber distribution of the delts are so slow twitch. Didn’t know if static holds might be better for growth. I am strong in the pecs and tri’s so I seem to take much of my overhead work on the tri’s and bench work on pec’s and tri’s. My delts seem to get a smoke break. They are large, but they are one bodypart I think that look really cool even when “disproportionate”. Kinda like forearms and calves…just can’t be too big. ;-).

Given the above, would you suggest a focus on isolation moves or perhaps pre-exhaust. I want to do some focus work in an EDT frame.

DH

Charles Staley wrote:
Hey Disc,

I wish I could provide you with something more “out of the box” than what I am going to say, but I just think that heavy compound movements such as presses, dips, & chins for parameters like 4-6 sets of 4-6 reps per set are the best way to go. Now if you’re “arm dominant” so to speak, you may need to do direct work I guess. I like doing laterals, bent laterals, in accelerative, choppy style believe it or not, at least concentrically. I think it creates higher tensions and therefore, growth

Disc Hoss wrote:
Charles, barring any personal aversion to direct delt training, what would you suggest for the best size gains? Various charts, and I’m thinking of the one in Serious Strength Training by Bompa, show that movements such as laterals only get 57% activation etc…

For all the other bodyparts, high levels of over 90% can be achieved with some movement or other, but what about delts?

DH

[/quote]

Question about your 21-Day Itch template. If I take a week off after the 3 weeks are over, can I start another 3 weeks assuming I use different exercises? This seems like the type of template that can be repeated indefinitely with the right mix of time off and exercise changes.

BTW - Looking forward to the Muscle Logic book.

You bet and you really need not use different exercises. There should hover, be a constantly-shifting progression of emphasis, and this can be accomplished by tweaking the loading parameters.

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
Question about your 21-Day Itch template. If I take a week off after the 3 weeks are over, can I start another 3 weeks assuming I use different exercises? This seems like the type of template that can be repeated indefinitely with the right mix of time off and exercise changes.

BTW - Looking forward to the Muscle Logic book. [/quote]

Charles,
Just to beat this into the ground. ;-).
What are your thoughts on less conventional training for delt mass AND cuff strengthening such as clubbells, kettelbells, etc…?

Donnie Thompson says he feels the clubbell helped his weak shoulders for benching.

DH

Anything you can tell us about your new book? Who would you recommend it to? Thanks!

Not sure about clubbells, but KB presses are great.

[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
Charles,
Just to beat this into the ground. ;-).
What are your thoughts on less conventional training for delt mass AND cuff strengthening such as clubbells, kettelbells, etc…?

Donnie Thompson says he feels the clubbell helped his weak shoulders for benching.

DH
[/quote]

Well it’s geared toward medium to advanced trainees; obviously it’s focused on EDT. Lots of great programs in it too…

[quote]andykwas wrote:
Anything you can tell us about your new book? Who would you recommend it to? Thanks![/quote]

I’m currently playing football but my main sport is wrestling. Our football practices are not that intense and it will not really zap my recovery. I want to lift and workout to get ready for wrestling. At my disposal I have a bench, barbell, dumbells, and a sandbag. No squat rack unfortunately, I have to make due with front squats and other LB movements, and I cannot deadlift due to a back condition.

I plan on starting a three-day a week full body split with one push, one pull, and one lower body exercise a day plus some sandbag and GPP work at the end. I also grease the groove with chins and do 6 every time I walk by, which is 4-5 times a day. My current strenght levels are adequate but not great, around BW bench, 10 chins, 135 x 2 max row, and 135 power clean. What would you recomend in this situation? My goals are to increase total body strength/power and GPP. I am also pressed for time with school, sport, and socializing. You have lots of experience with combat athletes so your opinion is highly valued.

Kombat, my 21-Day Itch program would fit your needs nicely…

[quote]KombatAthlete wrote:
I’m currently playing football but my main sport is wrestling. Our football practices are not that intense and it will not really zap my recovery. I want to lift and workout to get ready for wrestling. At my disposal I have a bench, barbell, dumbells, and a sandbag. No squat rack unfortunately, I have to make due with front squats and other LB movements, and I cannot deadlift due to a back condition.

I plan on starting a three-day a week full body split with one push, one pull, and one lower body exercise a day plus some sandbag and GPP work at the end. I also grease the groove with chins and do 6 every time I walk by, which is 4-5 times a day. My current strenght levels are adequate but not great, around BW bench, 10 chins, 135 x 2 max row, and 135 power clean. What would you recomend in this situation? My goals are to increase total body strength/power and GPP. I am also pressed for time with school, sport, and socializing. You have lots of experience with combat athletes so your opinion is highly valued.[/quote]

When will this be available Charles?

[quote]Charles Staley wrote:
Well it’s geared toward medium to advanced trainees; obviously it’s focused on EDT. Lots of great programs in it too…

andykwas wrote:
Anything you can tell us about your new book? Who would you recommend it to? Thanks!

[/quote]

[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
When will this be available Charles?

Charles Staley wrote:
Well it’s geared toward medium to advanced trainees; obviously it’s focused on EDT. Lots of great programs in it too…

andykwas wrote:
Anything you can tell us about your new book? Who would you recommend it to? Thanks!

[/quote]

Disc, I pre-ordered mine from Amazon. It’s set to be released Sept. 25, according to Amazon.

Thanks, MTB! Appreciate the info.

DH