T Nation

Staley: 7 Lbs Muscle/3 Lbs Fat

In T-Nation's most recent article, Staley stated:

“Gain lean body mass (LBM) without accruing significant body fat (a 70/30 ratio of muscle to fat gain is considered healthy and realistic by nutritional experts such as Dr. Lonnie Lowery).”

How does that sound for the more experienced bulkers around here? Accurate?

Too many variables tbh, keep in mind that this stuff is more aimed towards ‘athletes’ (not trying to start a debate !), e.g. people who have performance-specific goals and hypertrophy is one way among many to reach that goal.

With that being said, i was quite surprised myself, since i would’ve considered a 50/50 ratio realistic and even ‘good’, 70/30 seems phenomenal.

[quote]Petrichor wrote:
Too many variables tbh, keep in mind that this stuff is more aimed towards ‘athletes’ (not trying to start a debate !), e.g. people who have performance-specific goals and hypertrophy is one way among many to reach that goal.

With that being said, i was quite surprised myself, since if would’ve considered a 50/50 ratio realistic and even ‘good’, 70/30 seems phenomenal.[/quote]

Yeah that 70/30 ratio is from Lowery i’ve seen it in one of his articles.

I noticed that too. 30/70 more likely.

Formulas in general leave me with a little scowl on my face and this one is no different. There’s no way to determine something like this for yourself without some trial and error. Like everything else, genetics play the largest role with several other factors coming into play as well. In other words it’ll be different for different people and probably a lot different in a lot of cases.

70/30, wow thats bad. i put on 20 lbs lean mass in the past 3 months, and i gained maybe 2 lbs of fat. no lean bulk either, nor am i gifted in any way.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Formulas in general leave me with a little scowl on my face and this one is no different. There’s no way to determine something like this for yourself without some trial and error. [/quote]

Agreed. Authors make up formulas after realizing that people are too stupid to get, “It depends,” and too lazy for, “Train hard for a year and you’ll learn.” People who have been training for any period of time knows how their body works so they don’t need any formulas.

When people on the forum throw around numbers as if they are absolute (70-30; .5 lbs. of muscle per month, etc.), I know they have accomplished nothing.

I feel bad for authors sometimes. They have to literally make formulas up or else be deluged with PMs saying, “I weigh 150 lbs. How much muscle can I gain a month?”

[quote]ProfessorCHAOS96 wrote:
70/30, wow thats bad. i put on 20 lbs lean mass in the past 3 months, and i gained maybe 2 lbs of fat. no lean bulk either, nor am i gifted in any way.[/quote]

Well DONE!! Very Impressive, what kind of eating plan did you follow for those gains??

Personally I have found if you eat properly and follow a plan like Berardi’s PN I can gain muscle with hardly any fat…

ShadoW

[quote]ProfessorCHAOS96 wrote:
70/30, wow thats bad. i put on 20 lbs lean mass in the past 3 months, and i gained maybe 2 lbs of fat. no lean bulk either, nor am i gifted in any way.[/quote]

I hate to do this, but I’m calling B.S.

Did you have your bodyfat tested before hand by a professional, or are you just ‘eyeballing it’? (That makes a HUGE difference)

Sounds optimistic to me.

The think the average schmuck (even the average hard-working T-Nation schmuck) who gains 10 pounds has usually gained more than 3 pounds of fat.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]texass wrote:
I noticed that too. 30/70 more likely.[/quote]

What are you saying? 3 lbs of muscle for every 7 lbs of fat is appropriate? I vehemently disagree.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Formulas in general leave me with a little scowl on my face and this one is no different. There’s no way to determine something like this for yourself without some trial and error.

Agreed. Authors make up formulas after realizing that people are too stupid to get, “It depends,” and too lazy for, “Train hard for a year and you’ll learn.” People who have been training for any period of time knows how their body works so they don’t need any formulas.

When people on the forum throw around numbers as if they are absolute (70-30; .5 lbs. of muscle per month, etc.), I know they have accomplished nothing.

I feel bad for authors sometimes. They have to literally make formulas up or else be deluged with PMs saying, “I weigh 150 lbs. How much muscle can I gain a month?”[/quote]

This is true. Even this article itself was not against periodization, despite it’s title. And it shouldn’t be. Periodization works.

It was about a particular approach to periodization that yields good results. The title was just to get attention, as Staley said.

[quote]powersavant wrote:
ProfessorCHAOS96 wrote:
70/30, wow thats bad. i put on 20 lbs lean mass in the past 3 months, and i gained maybe 2 lbs of fat. no lean bulk either, nor am i gifted in any way.

I hate to do this, but I’m calling B.S.

Did you have your bodyfat tested before hand by a professional, or are you just ‘eyeballing it’? (That makes a HUGE difference)
[/quote]

If you want to put it that way, i have been bulking the past year and a half, pretty much ongoing… week off here and there. i started at 155 lbs @ 12.5% bf. Im now 200 lbs at 14% bf. Juts keep a clean diet, and lift heavy. Cardio twice a week.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
texass wrote:
I noticed that too. 30/70 more likely.

What are you saying? 3 lbs of muscle for every 7 lbs of fat is appropriate? I vehemently disagree.[/quote]

Vehemently? I just reversed the numbers to make a point. Chill out.

[quote]ProfessorCHAOS96 wrote:
powersavant wrote:
ProfessorCHAOS96 wrote:
70/30, wow thats bad. i put on 20 lbs lean mass in the past 3 months, and i gained maybe 2 lbs of fat. no lean bulk either, nor am i gifted in any way.

I hate to do this, but I’m calling B.S.

Did you have your bodyfat tested before hand by a professional, or are you just ‘eyeballing it’? (That makes a HUGE difference)

If you want to put it that way, i have been bulking the past year and a half, pretty much ongoing… week off here and there. i started at 155 lbs @ 12.5% bf. Im now 200 lbs at 14% bf. Juts keep a clean diet, and lift heavy. Cardio twice a week.

[/quote]

A year and a half isn’t 3 months. And you gained 9 pounds of fat and 36 pounds of lean mass. Which is more believable than 20 lbs lbm in 3 months. MATH, its whats for dinner.

[quote]texass wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
texass wrote:
I noticed that too. 30/70 more likely.

What are you saying? 3 lbs of muscle for every 7 lbs of fat is appropriate? I vehemently disagree.

Vehemently? I just reversed the numbers to make a point. Chill out.[/quote]

I understand. But I don’t think the point should be that over double the amount of fat gain compared to muscle is appropriate. You might have just been exagerrating to make the point. But if someone’s gaining that much fat compared to muscle they’re doing something seriously wrong. Either not training with intensity, eating way too much for their needs, or both.

[quote]powersavant wrote:
In T-Nation’s most recent article, Staley stated:

“Gain lean body mass (LBM) without accruing significant body fat (a 70/30 ratio of muscle to fat gain is considered healthy and realistic by nutritional experts such as Dr. Lonnie Lowery).”

How does that sound for the more experienced bulkers around here? Accurate?[/quote]

I remember reading that but I believe you took it out of context. He was saying 70/30 for a particular hypertrophy phase. Which is a certian length of time for an athlete that has a particular percentage. If your phase is one week and your trying to gain 7 lbs then it might be 30/70, compared to 3 months that might be 70/30, or 3 years which might be 97/3.

If I remember the article it related to athletes in different parts of their season, if you want to mirror their training then you can probably get that too.

I think 70/30 is plenty reasonable.

In the past ten months, I’ve put on 19# of LBM with 14# of fat. That’s around 60/40 muscle/fat, and my diet was definately not clean and perfect. And I’m a freaking endomorph…

Had I cleaned up my diet some and put in a little cardio, I think I definately could’ve reduced the fat gain a little bit better.

Actually, we’ve been forgetting that not all LBM is muscle. So a more believable breakdown of weight-gain might be:

3 pounds fat

3 pounds muscle

4 pounds water and energy stored in your muscles and food sitting around in your intestines.