T Nation

SS meets 5/3/1

I will cut all the unnecessary crap and go straight to the point.

I been running 5/3/1 for I think 3 months now, tomorrow I will be beginning my 4th week.

Lastly I have been stalling on squats like crazy, they’re becoming heavy and my form is starting to suffer greatly, enough for me to become worried.

I decided like last week ago to run leg presses instead of squats and squat as an accessory while ramping up the weights until my form becomes better, then I would re incorporate them in my routine as a major move.

I ran it for a day and though it sucked major asses, didn’t like it at all.

I then figured maybe I could make my squats more as an accessory, but with a SS template inside my 5/3/1 routine?

I.E:
Monday
5/3/1 bench
3x5x135 squat
**accessories

Tuesday
5/3/1 deadlift
**accessories

Wednesday
5/3/1 OHP
3x5x140 squat
**accessories

Thursday
Off or funny day/accessories day

Friday
3x5x145 squat
**accessories depending on thursday

Saturday
Off

Sunday
Off

On paper, to me it sounds like a good idea, I’d like to know what others think though?

Here is my log if anyone is interested in seeing it

You just need to lift. Come back in a year when you aren’t using 135 for work sets. Quit overthinking this shit.

EDIT: Holy shit I re-read your post. You “ran” the program with the leg press as a main movement…for a day. You obviously haven’t read the 5/3/1 book or even any of the numerous articles that Jim has written, or even the posts he has written on this very forum, for that matter. Go out and lift.

I squat 315, not really 135, I said I was going to drop the weights because at 300’s and even high 200’s my form starts to suffer, I don’t think I’m over thinking anything, I’m just wondering what’s the best way to go about getting my squat back up in the fastest time possible while working on my form

Post video of a squat at atleast 90% of your 1rm. Could be something easy to fix.

Well what I noticed was wobbly knees, could be something else as well.

I’ll post a video when I get the chance during this week

What were your accessory days for squat and deadlift days like?

Read this article and add in the extra squat day until you become stronger, or keep it to help with conditioning. To ditch squats with leg presses is not the answer and your squats wont get any stronger.

If the squats are becoming too heavy, simply reset your training max. Drop it back like 20-30 pounds, and then only increase the weight 5 pounds per cycle.

[quote]gory lobotomist wrote:

Read this article and add in the extra squat day until you become stronger, or keep it to help with conditioning. To ditch squats with leg presses is not the answer and your squats wont get any stronger.[/quote]

I don’t see anything in this article that mentions adding a squat day.

I did not have the intention of ditching squats for leg presses. What I wanted to do was lower my weight on my squats drastically so that I could make my way back up with better form. The only thing though is I didn’t want to compromise heavy leg work so I though leg presses could be a nice way of adding heavy weight training to my legs for the time my squats catch up

[quote]Doh wrote:
What were your accessory days for squat and deadlift days like? [/quote]

As you can see in the log I posted, I haven’t had a lifting day with any significant accessory work in a while because I want to do so many movements that at some point it was taking away from the actual main lifts so I cut back on all of them.

Really confused on how to set up my accessories to be honest.

Just do it I honestly dont see a prob with it. Or you could try full body 5 3 1 very similar

My opinion: You should just do 5/3/1 Full Body Template. It’s similar to what you are planning, but has had a lot of thought put into it by a remarkably strong and experienced lifter. Either way, good luck with your goals

[quote]BruteWithGlutes wrote:

[quote]Doh wrote:
What were your accessory days for squat and deadlift days like? [/quote]

As you can see in the log I posted, I haven’t had a lifting day with any significant accessory work in a while because I want to do so many movements that at some point it was taking away from the actual main lifts so I cut back on all of them.

Really confused on how to set up my accessories to be honest.[/quote]

How are you confused when there are 3 exact outlines in the 5/3/1 book? The Boring but Big template, the Triumvirate, and the SST template. It basically gives you one more “big” exercise to do each dayin a productive but non taxing way. Choose one and bang it out for 3-4 cycles.

follow 5/3/1 and just lower the weight 20 pounds and focus on form and beating rep PRs

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:
My opinion: You should just do 5/3/1 Full Body Template. It’s similar to what you are planning, but has had a lot of thought put into it by a remarkably strong and experienced lifter. Either way, good luck with your goals[/quote]
this is the best option IMO, especially if you want to squat more often. He factors in the meaningful accessory work, so I would just take this and add some extra hypertrophy work (nothing preplanned, higher reps and more isolated movements) if I felt like it after the outlined lifts. Here’s the article:

5/3/1 Full Body Training: Squat, Press, Pull
by Jim Wendler â?? 08/01/2011

A new take on and old favorite.

Iâ??ve experimented and written up thousands of programs and templates â?? this being one of them. I am in love with programming and trying to figure out how to make things simpler. I always read peopleâ??s articles/ books on training and try to figure out how to break it down into something even easier. Not to bastardize their program but rather to see the bigger picture â?? itâ??s like reading a good book/article; the author always hide a few good ideas amongst the words.

Here is a simple 3 day/week training program that allows you to train the entire body every workout. There is no fluff, nothing masturbatory and nothing fancy. This started as a way to get my shoulder flexibility back to normal by getting under the bar more often â?? even if itâ??s for lighter squats. From there, it morphed into this.

If you are currently doing the 5/3/1 program, you can EASILY start training like this the next week. Nothing has to change and itâ??s an easy transition.

This is obviously inspired by some of Bill Starrâ??s (and thus Mark Rippetoe) training; I give them thanks for the inspiration. As you can see, you have a press, squat and a pull each day. But each day has a â??heavyâ?? emphasis. And you always squat first. Because squatting is better than anything else.

Monday

â?¢ Squat â?? 3 sets of 5-10 reps (using deload percentages)

â?¢ Deadlift â?? 5/3/1 sets and reps

â?¢ DB Bench â?? 3 sets of 8-20 reps

Wednesday

â?¢ Squat â?? 3 sets of 5-10 reps (using deload percentages)

â?¢ Bench Press â?? 5/3/1 sets and reps

â?¢ DB Row â?? 3 sets or do Kroc Rows

Friday

â?¢ Squat â?? 5/3/1 sets and reps

â?¢ Press â?? 5/3/1 sets and reps (or do another pressing assistance exercise in its place)

â?¢ Chins or T-Bar Rows â?? 3-5 sets of whatever reps you want, usually 5-30 reps.

Notes:

â?¢ Start with sets of 5 on the â??lightâ?? squat days. You can work your way up to sets of 10 but you donâ??t have to.

â?¢ You can structure the training however you see fit but this template is probably the best Iâ??ve trained with.

â?¢ Iâ??ve been doing this since type of split since my accident â?? my training log hasnâ??t been telling the whole truth as I didnâ??t want to answer questions about the training until I knew the answer.

â?¢ This works well and is fun. I take some long breaks between the exercises because I use the weight room to get stronger not to â??toneâ??.

â?¢ I donâ??t compromise on my training or on my workouts â?? if you want to change something, do so and see if it works. I canâ??t endorse anything I donâ??t do personally.

â?¢ Eat. Sleep. Mate. Defend.

-Jim Wendler

I had the same problem with my squats…I felt they were too far behind compared to the other lifts. But instead of trying to combine programs, I ditched 5/3/1(which is what I was doing at the time) and ran stock Starting Strength. SS worked wonders for my squat! Didn’t do jack shit for upper body lifts, but that’s besides the point. So once I felt more comfortable with my squat weights, I went back to 5/3/1 and squatting once a week with the usual slow increases.