T Nation

Squatting With A Bounce?

I’m 32 yrs old, 5’11’’ 220 lbs and have been lifing for 20 years. I can squat just over 500lb unassisted for one rep. I descend very slow,go to parallel(low enough to sit on a small stool) and pause at the bottom, very similar to regulation powerlifing form.

There’s a guy at my gym who’s the same size as me, but squats 585 for 6 reps, but goes ass to the floor and bounces up at the bottom. I too would like to squat 585 for 6 reps, but I refuse to bounce like that. I feel that I’ll screw up my knees or something else if I do.

What do you guys think. Is bouncing at the bottom a valid way to squat.

I don’t think there is a substitute for going ATG. By going lower than you (for years perhaps) he has developed his glutes and hams and calves to a greater degree and can drive off the bottom with more force.

The bounce you see is probably the “drop” that many squatters use to get through the parallel “deadzone” since many of us can’t get to parallel if we approach it slowly from the top-side.

I used to be a top-side lifter too and my numbers went up by incorporating the ATG workout at the insistence of my lifting partner who is a world-ranked senior.

You have a guy in your gym who squats significantly more than you using that technique and you chose to come here to ask the question?

Instead of trying to find some dumbass on an internet forum to assure you what you are doing is OK, seek the advice of someone you can confirm actually knows what the fuck they are talking about.

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
You have a guy in your gym who squats significantly more than you using that technique and you chose to come here to ask the question?

Instead of trying to find some dumbass on an internet forum to assure you what you are doing is OK, seek the advice of someone you can confirm actually knows what the fuck they are talking about.[/quote]

I have a guy in my gym who benches 350lbs but bounces it off his chest to do so, should I consult him as well?

What I’m saying is, if you are unsure of the safety of a particular move, wouldn’t you find it prudent to ask people you believe to be knowlegable? It can be ‘difficult’ to ask the lifter himself if his move is safe or effective. Not to mention, not everyone is as biomechanically or physiologically able to perform certain exercises in certain ranges of motion.

Also, I have not seen this dude squat. Is he loading or bouncing? A bounce at the end of your squat IS hard on the knees.

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
You have a guy in your gym who squats significantly more than you using that technique and you chose to come here to ask the question?

Instead of trying to find some dumbass on an internet forum to assure you what you are doing is OK, seek the advice of someone you can confirm actually knows what the fuck they are talking about.

I have a guy in my gym who benches 350lbs but bounces it off his chest to do so, should I consult him as well?

What I’m saying is, if you are unsure of the safety of a particular move, wouldn’t you find it prudent to ask people you believe to be knowlegable? It can be ‘difficult’ to ask the lifter himself if his move is safe or effective. Not to mention, not everyone is as biomechanically or physiologically able to perform certain exercises in certain ranges of motion.

Also, I have not seen this dude squat. Is he loading or bouncing? A bounce at the end of your squat IS hard on the knees.[/quote]

That’s the dumbest fucking analogy I have ever read.

My point is unless this guy rolls in on a wheel chair and crawls his way over to the squat rack and climbs up the uprights to get under the bar to squat, his knee health must be OK.

He didn’t just wake up one morning, walk into the gym and do 585x6 full range of motion, so he must be doing something right.

Lately most of the responses on this forum seem to be written by 17 year olds who have read The Eight Keys and now think they have it all figured out.

What the OP is likely to get is referred to Tate’s Eight Keys and told to start box squatting or told he will cripple himself if he squats this way.

Enjoy.

http://www.thepress.org/Multi%20Media/Videos/Nick%20Tylutki/MOV02382.MPG

I perform all my lifts the same way-with control. I don’t like to bounce the bar off my chest when I bench, and I avoid things that could injure me. First of all, the bounce I witnessed was from mid-point down to atg, not a little bounce at the bottom.

I was only wondering if there were any accomplished lifters who believe in this technique for development of power during a regulation lift.

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
You have a guy in your gym who squats significantly more than you using that technique and you chose to come here to ask the question?

Instead of trying to find some dumbass on an internet forum to assure you what you are doing is OK, seek the advice of someone you can confirm actually knows what the fuck they are talking about.[/quote]

well your posting certainly backs up your thought process for this post.

You haven’t seen the guy lift, but you automatically say it is ok for this paricular poster to lift in such a manner.

My only suggestion was that we had in fact not seen the squat in question and the form could be dangerous. Now with the added info of 'bouncing from mid drop to heels–I reiterate that is not good form.

Yes, it is working for that guy and as of YET he has not been injured. If I were training anyone, bouncing through a squat is not a technique I would practice.

If it looks anything like the bottom of this guy’s front squats I would say you have nothing to worry about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVB_rQFSsEg&mode=related&search=

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
You have a guy in your gym who squats significantly more than you using that technique and you chose to come here to ask the question?

Instead of trying to find some dumbass on an internet forum to assure you what you are doing is OK, seek the advice of someone you can confirm actually knows what the fuck they are talking about.

well your posting certainly backs up your thought process for this post.

You haven’t seen the guy lift, but you automatically say it is ok for this paricular poster to lift in such a manner.

My only suggestion was that we had in fact not seen the squat in question and the form could be dangerous. Now with the added info of 'bouncing from mid drop to heels–I reiterate that is not good form.

Yes, it is working for that guy and as of YET he has not been injured. If I were training anyone, bouncing through a squat is not a technique I would practice.[/quote]

I would take issue with that statement and it indicates to me you haven’t spent much time evaluating how a lot of the greats squat. Current APF crap excluded.

I am making some assumptions as follows.

  1. He is squatting in a belt only.
  2. The poster is correct in the weight the lifter is handling.
  3. The lifter is truly utilizing a full range of motion.

Now, I don’t know how much you squat and don’t really care but for a guy to be going full range of motion with that kind of weight on his back tells me he is pretty tight…we are talking 585 here, not 225.

Secondly, we coach powerlfiters. We have some pretty damn good lifters and we teach them all to accelerate into the hole. That is how we all squat and none of us have any knee or back problems.

I posted Tylutki squatting 810. If I recall correctly that was done at a BW of 228. He trains with the guys at Jackals Gym. If you are not familar, google them.

They employ RAW 5x5 training for their squat. Nick’s last 5x5 was heading into that meet was @ 585. Granted he is a freak but his RAW form is very similar to the video.

Why don’t you email Jackals and share your thoughts with them?

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
You have a guy in your gym who squats significantly more than you using that technique and you chose to come here to ask the question?

Instead of trying to find some dumbass on an internet forum to assure you what you are doing is OK, seek the advice of someone you can confirm actually knows what the fuck they are talking about.

well your posting certainly backs up your thought process for this post.

You haven’t seen the guy lift, but you automatically say it is ok for this paricular poster to lift in such a manner.

My only suggestion was that we had in fact not seen the squat in question and the form could be dangerous. Now with the added info of 'bouncing from mid drop to heels–I reiterate that is not good form.

Yes, it is working for that guy and as of YET he has not been injured. If I were training anyone, bouncing through a squat is not a technique I would practice.

I would take issue with that statement and it indicates to me you haven’t spent much time evaluating how a lot of the greats squat. Current APF crap excluded.

I am making some assumptions as follows.

  1. He is squatting in a belt only.
  2. The poster is correct in the weight the lifter is handling.
  3. The lifter is truly utilizing a full range of motion.

Now, I don’t know how much you squat and don’t really care but for a guy to be going full range of motion with that kind of weight on his back tells me he is pretty tight…we are talking 585 here, not 225.

Secondly, we coach powerlfiters. We have some pretty damn good lifters and we teach them all to accelerate into the hole. That is how we all squat and none of us have any knee or back problems.

I posted Tylutki squatting 810. If I recall correctly that was done at a BW of 228. He trains with the guys at Jackals Gym. If you are not familar, google them.

They employ RAW 5x5 training for their squat. Nick’s last 5x5 was heading into that meet was @ 585. Granted he is a freak but his RAW form is very similar to the video.

Why don’t you email Jackals and share your thoughts with them?

[/quote]

I shall.

There is quite a bit of difference between the tecnique of acceleration and bouncing.

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
You have a guy in your gym who squats significantly more than you using that technique and you chose to come here to ask the question?

Instead of trying to find some dumbass on an internet forum to assure you what you are doing is OK, seek the advice of someone you can confirm actually knows what the fuck they are talking about.

well your posting certainly backs up your thought process for this post.

You haven’t seen the guy lift, but you automatically say it is ok for this paricular poster to lift in such a manner.

My only suggestion was that we had in fact not seen the squat in question and the form could be dangerous. Now with the added info of 'bouncing from mid drop to heels–I reiterate that is not good form.

Yes, it is working for that guy and as of YET he has not been injured. If I were training anyone, bouncing through a squat is not a technique I would practice.

I would take issue with that statement and it indicates to me you haven’t spent much time evaluating how a lot of the greats squat. Current APF crap excluded.

I am making some assumptions as follows.

  1. He is squatting in a belt only.
  2. The poster is correct in the weight the lifter is handling.
  3. The lifter is truly utilizing a full range of motion.

Now, I don’t know how much you squat and don’t really care but for a guy to be going full range of motion with that kind of weight on his back tells me he is pretty tight…we are talking 585 here, not 225.

Secondly, we coach powerlfiters. We have some pretty damn good lifters and we teach them all to accelerate into the hole. That is how we all squat and none of us have any knee or back problems.

I posted Tylutki squatting 810. If I recall correctly that was done at a BW of 228. He trains with the guys at Jackals Gym. If you are not familar, google them.

They employ RAW 5x5 training for their squat. Nick’s last 5x5 was heading into that meet was @ 585. Granted he is a freak but his RAW form is very similar to the video.

Why don’t you email Jackals and share your thoughts with them?

I shall.

There is quite a bit of difference between the tecnique of acceleration and bouncing. [/quote]

EXACTLY!!!

To your earlier point, neither of us has seen this guy squat.

The point I am trying to bring about is that it is quite possible what he is doing is fine.

Somebody not familar with acceleration into the hole could equate it to some form of loose ass bouncing. I can state with a lot of confidence he ain’t getting away with that with 585 on his back.

Every time this topic comes up the majority go screaming out into the woods about how you will tear yourself up doing this, it’s poor form, etc. and obviously with a few caviats, I am calling BS.

Mark Rippetoe (in “Starting Strength”) does an excellent job of explaining the “bounce” out of the hole of a deep squat, which when performed correctly, isn’t really a bounce by definition.

Basically, when you’re in the deep squat position and the hips and hamstrings reach a full stretch, they will help with a rebound out of the hole. If you’re letting the glutes and hamstrings do their work you’re really helping your knees out.

I guess it has been pretty well covered, but there is a difference between using a rapid reversable action at the bottom and using the muscles and ligaments to actually “bounce”.

As long as the muscles of the quad aren’t allowed to relax at all there isn’t even really an issue. Sometimes I reverse quickly, sometimes I pause; there’s a place for everything.

I’ll throw in my $0.02 here. When Im squatting oly style I dont know if what I do would be considered a “bounce” but I’ll tell you this - I sure as hell dont stay in the hole for too long. I was doing that for a few owrkouts (thought I’d try it to see if it helped me develop starting strength) but I felt like there was WAY to much stress on my knees with a pause.

Also, I dont think I’m trying to “bounce” my hips off my ankles, really I just try to increase the resistance my quads and hams are doing as I get further into the hole so it takes that split second less to fire them out fo the hole.

It depends on whether the lifter has good technique with this type of squat. Also, I would say a taller lifter might have some other things to think about when doing deep squats. People with longer levers are dealing with quite a bit more torque, but the bottom line is, if someone can do it, they can do it. Also, just because you are going deeper doesnt mean it is a necessarily harder exercise with a given weight. For example. If you are front squatting with 300 and have experience going deep, it would be more difficult to stop at parallel because it turns the exercise into more of a hack squat where the posterior chain is less involved.