Squatting to Depth vs Adding Weight to the Bar

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I definitely agree with the sentiment you are expressing here, I would just reconcile your first statement with your last. If the quarter squats ARE getting the results desired, would you agree there is no need to change them?[/quote]

Unless those folks DO think they’re squatting to a depth that they really aren’t.

That’s pretty much what people are talking about when they talking about quarter squats and the like. If people know what they’re doing and do it intentionally, then more power to them. But that’s not what’s happening in most cases. I cringe a bit whenever I see guys bring their gf and show them how awesome they are squatting 155lb with utterly atrocious form. I mean, BAD form. One guy teaching his gf I saw recently literally had his feet caving into his toes. A good third of his feet was off the ground with every rep… Fortunately his gf had good form.

And there certainly could be a case made for good form. Benching with your arms flared out is bad for your shoulders and can lead to injuries. Sure you might be able to bench more right this instant with that, but if you get injured you won’t be able to continue benching, and so you won’t get stronger.

That’s probably why you should follow established form- Your chances of getting injured isn’t as high, and so you can continue to lift and continue making progress.

Had to post: WORST SQUATS I HAVE EVER SEEN - YouTube

[quote]tsantos wrote:
Had to post: WORST SQUATS I HAVE EVER SEEN - YouTube

“I squat 2 - 3 times a week, but I stopped making gains. I’m desperate. I’m sick of 5x5. I’ve tried it for 3 weeks and it isn’t working. PLEASE HELP ME. MY WORLD IS CAVING IN. I WANNA BE AESTHETIC SOOOO BAD.”

[quote]howareyoumeduck wrote:
What if… I continue to add weight to my ‘not quite parallel squats’ and after my last set, take the weight down to 60kg. Then, really hit ‘atg’ for a set and continue to do this and add weight each workout. Would one set of this be productive? Would this method cover all bases? By squatting, my main aim is to build my quadriceps and glutes. I am deadlifting also, I believe this covers the other parts of the leg muscles. (excuse improper use of terminology, its getting late, I’m knackered). So by doing a last set of full ‘atg’ I would be covering all of the muscles I need to develop? [/quote]

why don’t you just start at 60 kg??? Then work your way up.

Unless you are really trying to impress that really cute guy with the big arms across the gym, there’s no reason you gotta squat like shit for the sake of having extra plates on the bar.

Point blank, continuing to squat above parallel WILL get you results (granted it’s not as bad as the video above). Absolutely. But squatting in that manner will eventually lead to quicker plateaus… and possible injuries. No one can say for sure that your squatting style won’t help you gain size in your legs.

‘Doing 90% of your sets with ‘shitty’ form, then atg for the last set… will that hit all your muscles…’

Bro, I’m guessing you try to do the bare minimum in other aspects of your life as well. And it isn’t a terrible thing. We all want the best bang for the buck. But perhaps it’s your mindset you must adjust first.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
For example, I prioritize getting stronger over staying healthy/injury free, and the majority of my methodology/advice is hinged around that.
[/quote]

Just out of curiosity… Does longevity mean nothing to you? Seriously, very few people get more than an ego stroke out of lifting heavy shit. Am I willing to train so hard now that I’ll have to stop doing it at all in my forties and will be swallowing painkillers like m&m’s? Nope.

[quote]tsantos wrote:
Had to post: [/quote]

Does anyone else find this to be a total douche move? I mean, the kid is trying to get stronger, but perhaps a little ignorant (assuming that’s not some sort of quad pre-exhaust/iso), and these folks film him and post it. They didn’t show his face, but still…

[quote]tsantos wrote:
Had to post: WORST SQUATS I HAVE EVER SEEN - YouTube

At the least, he has the Chuck Taylors going for him … lol !

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I prioritize getting stronger over staying healthy/injury free
[/quote]
You might be singing a different tune at my age.

[quote]1 Man Island wrote:

Does anyone else find this to be a total douche move? [/quote]
I think it’s a douche move to tie up the cage doing something as ridiculous as this.

[quote]kpsnap wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I prioritize getting stronger over staying healthy/injury free
[/quote]
You might be singing a different tune at my age

[/quote]

I absolutely will be. That is why I am training this way while I am 29 and able to recover from it. When I am older, I will play golf, but now I will train to meet my goals.

This is a beginner’s forum. Are there advanced lifters that might purposefully choose to 1/4 squat? Maybe. Seems like a waste to me, but that’s their prerogative. Life is short and they can do whatever they want.

Beginners should be learning to do a proper basic squat.

If they are too cheap or lazy to get Mark Rippetoe’s Starting Strength, and learn how to properly do one then they shouldn’t be near a barbell. They are only going to eff themselves up, and then blame squats for their effed up knees and backs. Meanwhile, squats had nothing to do with it whatsoever.

Seriously. It’s a movement that seems so simple, just like a deadlift, but there is hard complexity in it. It can take many lifters years to perfect. So why waste time doing it wrong, and then have to go back and waste more time un-effing your form because you wanted to impress some person with your “big” number?

That’s an ego problem. And it’s gonna cause a whole helluva lot more problems in your life than just a pathetic squat that injures you.

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I definitely agree with the sentiment you are expressing here, I would just reconcile your first statement with your last. If the quarter squats ARE getting the results desired, would you agree there is no need to change them?[/quote]

Unless those folks DO think they’re squatting to a depth that they really aren’t.

[/quote]

I generally never presume to know what a person is thinking. That said though, if a trainee is thinking “hodor hodor hodor” and getting the results they want, I figure they can think whatever they want. Gym numbers are just gym numbers, and if anyone wants to claim something they can claim whatever they want. However, if they are doing what they are doing and it is NOT getting them bigger and stronger, they are being foolish.

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
For example, I prioritize getting stronger over staying healthy/injury free, and the majority of my methodology/advice is hinged around that.
[/quote]

Just out of curiosity… Does longevity mean nothing to you? Seriously, very few people get more than an ego stroke out of lifting heavy shit. Am I willing to train so hard now that I’ll have to stop doing it at all in my forties and will be swallowing painkillers like m&m’s? Nope.[/quote]

My passion is being stronger, not lifting metal. I lift weights only because it helps me reach my goal, and in turn my goal is not to be able to keep doing it until I die, but instead to get as much out of it as I can.

That said, the longevity crowd confuses me. I lift raw and without drugs, which limits how hard I can really push my body in any capacity. However, you have guys like Matt Kroczaleski, that has a list of injuries that includes “torn left calf, torn right quadriceps, torn left pec, torn left lat, separated right acromioclavicular joint, two detached biceps tendons, he has torn his right triceps once and left several times and has also suffered numerous back injuries. Several of these injuries have required surgical repair” along with being a cancer survivor, and is STILL lifting heavy in his 40s.

Meanwhile, my dad lifted no weights when he was a kid, and slid on his socks while he was walking across his kitchen and broke his collar bone. My grandfather died of pancreatic and bladder cancer. Bad stuff comes our way when we get older, I figure I might as well enjoy the times when I’m younger.

If I really cared about longevity, I wouldn’t lift weights. Period. I’d do some bodyweight work, eat lightly, and go on brisks walks.

[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
Squatting is like SEX, the Deeper into the Hole you go…the more Pleasurable the Outcome ; )[/quote]

A lot of women would argue that work capacity and force production are still important.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
My passion is being stronger, not lifting metal. [/quote]
And you measure strength how? Lifting something, I would think.

This is a beginners forum. Most people here don’t have the goal of peaking at elite levels in rapid time. Theyre just trying to figure out the basics of lifting (or possibly powerlifting).

I am a longevity person. I love powerlifting for the sake of powerlifting. I’ll never be elite. I’ll never even be very good. But the sport feeds something in me that a sport such as golf never could. So I focus on training smart so I can train long term. And I encourage beginners to focus on form and train smart so that they can have the option of lifting long-term too.

My coach is still competing at 75 years old (a member of the IPF World team many times over) because he trains smart and has prioritized being injury-free as much as possible.

Why is everyone assuming the OP is going to injure himself by not squatting to parallel or his form is off without seeing a video of how he squats?

[quote]kpsnap wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
My passion is being stronger, not lifting metal. [/quote]
And you measure strength how? Lifting something, I would think.
[/quote]

Yup, that is the measurement. I do not enjoy measuring my strength, I simply enjoy being strong.

Your coach sounds awesome and I am happy for him that he is doing what he loves when he is older. I will hope to do the same thing as well. It sounds like you are just like me as well, in that we are both training the way we want to train in order to achieve the goals we want to achieve. That’s great! I would hope the TC would do this as well.

I agree, this is the beginner’s forum, and that’s why I feel it’s beneficial for beginners to learn how to progress beyond the beginner stage. I am in no way, shape or form telling people they should squat high. I am saying they should squat to the depth that helps them meet their goals. This is a lesson that I wish someone taught me when I was beginner, because I squandered years of my training squatting to some artificial standard that other beginners said HAD to be met in order to make progress.

If the TC is squatting like that person in the video, I can’t imagine he is meeting his goals, in which case the answer is obvious that he should squat lower. It’s a simple process of analysis.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
It sounds like you are just like me as well, in that we are both training the way we want to train in order to achieve the goals we want to achieve.[/quote]
Fair enough. Good luck to you. It’s a pleasure to debate with someone who is civil. There’s a scarcity of that on this site.

[quote]kpsnap wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
It sounds like you are just like me as well, in that we are both training the way we want to train in order to achieve the goals we want to achieve.[/quote]
Fair enough. Good luck to you. It’s a pleasure to debate with someone who is civil. There’s a scarcity of that on this site.[/quote]

Hah, fully agreed! People take this stuff too seriously sometimes, and it’s all just ad hominems and walls of text responding to others. I’m just here to share my own experiences, and I’ve enjoyed your posts where you’ve done the same.

Good luck to you as well.

If a person simply sits their ass down on a chair, they have reached “parallel”.

Just below this point is enough. It is neither hard nor complicated to reach. The simple exercise of sitting down in, and getting up from a chair without faceplanting will teach you all you need to know about the basic idea.

Really. Starting Strength goes into the cues, and reasons, much more thoroughly. And these things matter because poor technique WILL cause at best unnecessary aches/pains and at worst potential injury. N00bs should properly learn the lifts from the start so they can avoid unnecessary problems later.

Look, lifting heavy ass weights can injure you even when you do everything right. Pushing that envelope is the reason most of us do it. Some guys are more crazy than others and will cross the line. Personal choice, but really; that’s a choice that should be made once they are an intermediate/advanced lifter and not while they are a beginner. A guy that is 1/4 squatting 250# is NOT intermediate/advanced.

I feel we will have to agree to disagree.