Squatting for Strength, Olympic Lifting

basically im thinking that my squat is lagging behind a lot, right now im doing 3*5 from rippetoe, but its been like that for a while so i wonder how i can change it

someone at the olympic lifting who snatches 130 and c&j 170kgs told me i should try for a lot of 1RMs

how does 33, 22, 1*1 sound for a rep scheme for strength?

ill be alternating between back and front squats every workout, working out 3 times a week probably

What are your current front and back squat maxes and how do they compare to your snatch and C&J?

Last year I put 40kg on my front squat by running two 12 week basic linear progression routines, then followed that with a period where I’d work up to a 3RM on Monday and then have a lighter session on Thursday. If I made the max weight I added 2.5kg the next session. I’d do a max single every 6-8 weeks, or if I was feeling especially strong.

I was back squatting on Fridays, basic linear progression again - 5 reps, next week add 5% and drop to 4 reps, next week add 5% and drop to 3 reps, then next week drop 5% and start again at 5 reps. I only did 1 max single in the back squat last year and that wasn’t planned - just felt like seeing how my back squat was.

I think going for max singles all the time will just hammer you too much and affect your snatch and C&J.

Squats are way too high impact of an exercise to do singles on thrice a week. If you’re stalled doing rippetoe’s starting strength, then perhaps you want to move to his intermediate programming methods. He has several methods explained in his Practical Programming book.

Or you can just take a back off on your squat if that’s the only exercise that’s stalled.

I started powerlifting just 7 years ago. I was on a 5x5 routine when my squat stagnated at 315x5. I did 20-rep breathing squats for 8 weeks. After 8 weeks, my 10RM was 315. A week later, I squatted 365x3.

Why did it work? Use something radically different.

We need your numbers and your goals. Im not an expert on olympic lifting, but I always thought that the squat was the easiest part of the movement.

Where exactly do you think your weakest in the squat? Is it out of the hole, or what?

Also, if you are doing olympic lifting, and your front squat is weak in a movement like clean & jerk, then you should be training the lift as two movements.

So if you can clean and jerk 100kg, try doing full cleans with 105-110 kg, and jerks with 105-110kg. Or use the 100kg and do slightly higher reps.

I read that this is how a lot of Olympic lifters train, but I myself dont do much O-lifting.

***Also, I could be wrong, but I would stick with front squat and overhead squat.

you need to google some o lifting routines mang

[quote]dankid wrote:
***Also, I could be wrong, but I would stick with front squat and overhead squat.[/quote]

Definitely not true, almost all olympic lifters at top level do back squats also.

[quote]shizen wrote:
dankid wrote:
***Also, I could be wrong, but I would stick with front squat and overhead squat.

Definitely not true, almost all olympic lifters at top level do back squats also. [/quote]

Ya I wasn’t sure on that one. But go for it.

right now i can back squat bit over 120kgs and front squat i guess around 95-100

the reason i want it to go up and fast is cause for all the moves, you need to use your legs for them. maybe the squatting up is the easy part once you have the balance but still. if you cant squat 100 kgs, then you wont be able to pull 100 kgs.

eventually my long term goal is to reach a front squat of at least 250 kgs, which means a back squat of 300 or so. overhead squat 200 i guess.

btw i searched for olympic lifting programs and they are very hard to find on the internet.

i know that olympic lifting is about technique too. but no matter how much technique i put to it, if i cant squat enough i wont be able to do it.

as a bit of a shorter term goal, i’d say 250/200/150 back/front/overhead squat.

is this possible within a year, or a year and a half? that amount to about a kilo increase every 4 days.

With exception of lifters who squat jerk, hardly any lifter who’s not a complete beginner does overhead squats.

I highly doubt you’ll double your numbers in a years time.

All of those are big lifts for a non-elite O-lifter. A 200kg front squat is a very big fucking lift. A 150kg overhead squat won’t necessarily translate very well to the snatch either, or to put it a better way - you don’t need to be able to OHS 150kg to snatch it.

As far as programs go, training 3 days a week you can just alternate between:

Workout 1:
Front squat
Clean pulls

Workout 2:
Back squat
Snatch pulls

Ab work at the end of every session. Add some curls to keep your elbows healthy, and some pullups or rows.

Depending on what weakness you’re focusing on that cycle you can then add things like snatch balances, rack jerks, overhead supports, etc.

i missed this part

my back squat always has a sticking point a bit above parrallel/at 90 degrees as far as i see from the videos i get.

the front squats its about the same but they are kinda harder during the whole movement but there isnt much of a sticking point so far

here is a vid of back squats i did couple weeks ago

A few pointers:

  • Start squatting deeper - you’re depth isn’t bad, but could be better. If you get buried by a heavy clean it’s going to be at rock bottom where it happens. Are you wearing Oly shoes?
  • Slow down your descent - you’re almost freefalling into the hole. Control the weight, don’t let it control you.
  • Try and stay more upright - think big chest, drive your head back into the bar, pull the bar down into your traps.
  • As soon as you hit the bottom fire out of the hole fast, try and get your hips under the bar as soon as possible. At the moment you’re leaving them behind.

[quote]lordstorm88 wrote:
as a bit of a shorter term goal, i’d say 250/200/150 back/front/overhead squat.

is this possible within a year, or a year and a half? that amount to about a kilo increase every 4 days.[/quote]

Honestly those sound like very lofty goals to me. I can think of a couple national level lifters who back/front squat that who have been training for 5+ years. How much do you weigh now?

1)i cant squat deeper without oly shoes (which i didnt have when i took the video, i got some a week ago so i have them now and they help with posture a lot)

squatting any deeper means getting my knees more back, which was impossible at that time without falling back

2)the descent is controlled actually, probably cause the weight still isnt all that much, bit over bw

3)yes i still have flexibility issues with hips and hamstrings. otherwise its just my back getting tired. if you check again, the first rep i am overall much more upright where flexibility allows than durig the last reps

4)thats as fast as it goes actually. but ill try the hips thing next time.

i weigh 220-230 lbs right now

100-104kgs or so. my bf% would be around 20 if i were to guess. in the end i want to reach 108-110 kgs with 12-15% body fat, so if eventually i decide to compete seriously in oly lifting ill be at the 105 kg class.

i have at least 6 months to a year of eating to bulk up. i still have around 10 kgs of muscle i can gain

learn how to lead with your hips and sit back

No, he needs to sit down, not back.

In my opinion, the best o-lifting program is the one your coach will give you.

Apart from that, I don’t think overhead squats are that important for the snatch, I know guys who overhead squat rarely… maybe like once every 3 months, although they might do drop snatches more often than that. But other than that these guys squat snatch WAY more than they OH squat.

the coach i have isnt the greatest one you could ask for.

he certainly helps with technique but strength isnt the same. and if im ever to compete at a good level, i will definitely need much higher strength. now i find nothing bad with training for technique meanwhile, and even if i do 25 snatches and 25 clean and jerks a day, that amounts to thousands over a year.

but i dont want to reach a point where training for technique gets my CNS or my muscles too tired to make progress in strength now that i definitely need it anyway.

since the squat is probably the only exercise that is almost entirely copied in the oly lifts i figured its the one to focus most at.

the deadlift isnt entirely copied since you need to pull the weight without your hips coming up first, bench press is almost totally useless, overhead press will help up to a point, but you use legs a lot there too.