Squats: Keep Stalling at the Same Spot

So I keep stalling at the exact same point with squats. Well, actually I’m doing box squats, which are harder, but same principle.

At 245, I fail. I then back down to 230, or 235, work back up, and when I get to 245, I fail. As a test, I can do a regular squat at 275, which seems to equal, to me, a 240 box squat in terms of effort.

This has now happened 3 times in a row at the exact same weight, 245. All my other lifts progress regularly, it is only squats that are a problem.

Help!!!

–Me

Do squats instead?

Vary rep ranges, 531 is a good way to do this.
Hammer the assistance work.
Eat enough.
Recover enough.

Not the most advanced advice in the world, but it should get you past a 245 box squat.

I have the same problem with squats. I mean, stalling out at the same weight. I failed regular squats at 280, but as I mentioned above, can do 275.

Now, I’ve never done leg assistance exercises. Would lunges and RDLs potentially help my squats improve, or are they unrelated?

Also, with my body type, I tend towards a strange strength curve. I have almost no muscle endurance (in general, not just with squats). The first two reps are almost easy, but then suddenly I get gassed and they really get progressively harder. With all exercises, my 1RM seems to be significantly higher than my 5RM.

Would it make sense to do 5 x 3 instead of 3 x 5, and use assistance exercises for more mass building? Or is this whole strength/muscle endurance thing a crock of shit and it is all in my head?

I’m really frustrated here, as I love squats, but I hate that I’m stalling out like this so early. I mean, I’m still a novice, I thought I should be able to progress more consistently.

–Me

[quote]kravi wrote:
Would it make sense to do 5 x 3 instead of 3 x 5, and use assistance exercises for more mass building? Or is this whole strength/muscle endurance thing a crock of shit and it is all in my head?[/quote]
I wouldn’t do either. Ramp up to one top set. After that, go for more volume. I’d do one set of as many reps as possible with a weight I can do for 5-10 reps. Then I’d do squats, front squats, zercher squats, leg presses, good mornings, leg press, leg curls or something for about 3x10, until I’ve gotten some quality work in. I learned a lot from this thread:

[quote]kakno wrote:

[quote]kravi wrote:
Would it make sense to do 5 x 3 instead of 3 x 5, and use assistance exercises for more mass building? Or is this whole strength/muscle endurance thing a crock of shit and it is all in my head?[/quote]
I wouldn’t do either. Ramp up to one top set. After that, go for more volume. I’d do one set of as many reps as possible with a weight I can do for 5-10 reps. Then I’d do squats, front squats, zercher squats, leg presses, good mornings, leg press, leg curls or something for about 3x10, until I’ve gotten some quality work in. I learned a lot from this thread:

Appreciate the reply. To be honest, I want to keep increasing the load on squats, rather than increase volume for its own sake. But if increasing volume for a while then allows me to ramp up the weight, I’m all for it.

–Me

[quote]kravi wrote:

[quote]kakno wrote:

[quote]kravi wrote:
Would it make sense to do 5 x 3 instead of 3 x 5, and use assistance exercises for more mass building? Or is this whole strength/muscle endurance thing a crock of shit and it is all in my head?[/quote]
I wouldn’t do either. Ramp up to one top set. After that, go for more volume. I’d do one set of as many reps as possible with a weight I can do for 5-10 reps. Then I’d do squats, front squats, zercher squats, leg presses, good mornings, leg press, leg curls or something for about 3x10, until I’ve gotten some quality work in. I learned a lot from this thread:

Appreciate the reply. To be honest, I want to keep increasing the load on squats, rather than increase volume for its own sake. But if increasing volume for a while then allows me to ramp up the weight, I’m all for it.

–Me
[/quote]

sounds like you’ve caused your own problem.

volume is necessary to create more muscle mass. it isn’t done just for its own sake.

[quote]kravi wrote:

[quote]kakno wrote:

[quote]kravi wrote:
Would it make sense to do 5 x 3 instead of 3 x 5, and use assistance exercises for more mass building? Or is this whole strength/muscle endurance thing a crock of shit and it is all in my head?[/quote]
I wouldn’t do either. Ramp up to one top set. After that, go for more volume. I’d do one set of as many reps as possible with a weight I can do for 5-10 reps. Then I’d do squats, front squats, zercher squats, leg presses, good mornings, leg press, leg curls or something for about 3x10, until I’ve gotten some quality work in. I learned a lot from this thread:

Appreciate the reply. To be honest, I want to keep increasing the load on squats, rather than increase volume for its own sake. But if increasing volume for a while then allows me to ramp up the weight, I’m all for it.

–Me
[/quote]
You do both. You increase the load (or reps) on that first set whenever possible and then you get some volume in. Helped me get past a very long deadlift plateau.

OP, I’m not sure why you’re stalling, but it seems like 3x5 is not working for you, which is strange because most people can squelch themselves up to about 315 or more(I’ve seen up to 405x5!) before it stops working.

Are you saying you can complete 240x3x5, but fail to do 245x3x5?

If you’re not doing it already, try out the Starting Strength method for your Squat training, I have a hard time believing it is not working for you if that’s what you’re doing. (AKA do 3x5 and keep going up until you stall, then use the same weight that you stall on 3 sessions in a row, if you STILL stall, then reset down 20pounds or so and work back up, and if you STILL stall at the same weight 3 sessions when you get there and deload again and fail AGAIN 3x, then get off SS)

A program many people use with success in this number region of Squats is MadCows 5x5. My friend got up to a 585 squat using it, and it is extremely successful. Instead of squatting very heavy 3x a week, you ramp up to 1 set of 5 on Monday, do extremely light DE squats on Wednesday, and then ramp up to a heavy triple on Friday.

You can actually do this practice for squats without even having to call yourself being on Madcows, it’s a pretty simple principle, and one of the most valuable things a friend I have with a 700+ squat IRL told me:

Monday you can work up to a 3x5 with top weight ( for example 235x3x5 ), then Wednesday do 240x3x3, then Friday push for 240x3x5, etc. Rotating heavy 3x5 with 3x3 seems to help plateau bust when you are a newbie, and maybe that will work for you?

Also you may have some kind of glaring weakness you are not addressing.

If you have not read the program Starting Strength yet, you will notice you deadlift 1-2x a week, and eventually start doing “HYPEREXTENSIONS” very frequently. The hyperextensions may sound stupid, but they personally made my squat explode after my first plateau, and they really develop your hamstring/erector/glutes better than you think with a nice little squat crossover. Start implementing them if you’re not already, following the SS guidelines.

Hope this helps,you should not be stalling yet.

Ethan,

I’ve been doing the squats according to starting strength, and my three rollbacks were also according to that protocol. For whatever reason, 245 is out to get me.

Everything else progresses just fine. It is only squats that I struggle with.

–Me

Why are you doing box squats? Do regular squats.

Kravi, are you doing the Weighted Hyperextensions the program calls for?

If you truly have reset 3 times, then maybe you are actually just done with the program! It is called STARTING STRENGTH after all (I’m assuming you have been eating enough btw).

Go ahead and start up what most lifters do right after then, MadCows 5x5.

It’s pretty different…

Monday : 5x5, working up to a top set of 1x5

Wednesday : Light DE Day for Squats, but heavy 1x5 Deadlift top set

Friday: You work up to a heavy Triple, and this triple BECOMES YOUR 5 REP MAX OF THE NEXT MONDAY!

Look it up yourself, there are actually spreadsheets/calculators for it and whatnot!

Like I have mentioned before, this is the “Hit” program that people usually use right after SS and it gets them to the 350-400 squat markers without issue, as well as 450+ deadlifter markers, I think I also told you my friend got to a 585 squat exclusively using this squat program.

See how the MadCows switch goes!

[quote]louiek wrote:
Why are you doing box squats? Do regular squats.[/quote]

Good question. There are a couple of reasons.

  1. I train alone in my basement. No spotters, no power rack. I have a basic adjustable stand I use. If I use a box and can’t get out of the hole, the box lets me recover some strength while sitting down.

  2. I like the fact that box squats don’t make use of muscle reflexes. Two seconds at the bottom of the squat seems to really put the muscles to work, which, I think (no expert here), is why 245 box squat more or less equals 275 regular squat. Instead of training the reflex, I’m training muscles.

–Me

P.S. Reason 1 is 98% of why I use box squats. They feel safer, and squats scare the crap out of me.

[quote]kravi wrote:

[quote]louiek wrote:
Why are you doing box squats? Do regular squats.[/quote]

Good question. There are a couple of reasons.

  1. I train alone in my basement. No spotters, no power rack. I have a basic adjustable stand I use. If I use a box and can’t get out of the hole, the box lets me recover some strength while sitting down.

  2. I like the fact that box squats don’t make use of muscle reflexes. Two seconds at the bottom of the squat seems to really put the muscles to work, which, I think (no expert here), is why 245 box squat more or less equals 275 regular squat. Instead of training the reflex, I’m training muscles.

–Me

P.S. Reason 1 is 98% of why I use box squats. They feel safer, and squats scare the crap out of me.[/quote]

  1. Learn to miss on back squats, and give front squats a try. Being scared of squats, especially at your training age, is not good. Even if you were to do back squats, you don’t need to train to failure. Train to 1 rep below failure. Strain, but don’t attempt reps that you’re not confident on.

  2. That’s true. Box squats are less stressful because they use less weight and eliminate stretch reflex to enhance activation of certain muscles over others. But that’s why you should be doing free squats. They’ll help you develop way more than a box squat (at this stage of your training career, anyway), and stretch reflex is not a bad thing. You need to use stretch reflex to move weights with maximum efficiency. Besides, as a beginner, you will recover quick enough on free squats.

What your actual goals are will determine what you “should” be doing, though. There’s ideal training, and acceptable training. Without a power rack, you can’t train ideally. That doesn’t mean you can’t get results.

[quote]louiek wrote:

[quote]kravi wrote:

[quote]louiek wrote:
Why are you doing box squats? Do regular squats.[/quote]

Good question. There are a couple of reasons.

  1. I train alone in my basement. No spotters, no power rack. I have a basic adjustable stand I use. If I use a box and can’t get out of the hole, the box lets me recover some strength while sitting down.

  2. I like the fact that box squats don’t make use of muscle reflexes. Two seconds at the bottom of the squat seems to really put the muscles to work, which, I think (no expert here), is why 245 box squat more or less equals 275 regular squat. Instead of training the reflex, I’m training muscles.

–Me

P.S. Reason 1 is 98% of why I use box squats. They feel safer, and squats scare the crap out of me.[/quote]

  1. Learn to miss on back squats, and give front squats a try. Being scared of squats, especially at your training age, is not good. Even if you were to do back squats, you don’t need to train to failure. Train to 1 rep below failure. Strain, but don’t attempt reps that you’re not confident on.

  2. That’s true. Box squats are less stressful because they use less weight and eliminate stretch reflex to enhance activation of certain muscles over others. But that’s why you should be doing free squats. They’ll help you develop way more than a box squat (at this stage of your training career, anyway), and stretch reflex is not a bad thing. You need to use stretch reflex to move weights with maximum efficiency. Besides, as a beginner, you will recover quick enough on free squats.

What your actual goals are will determine what you “should” be doing, though. There’s ideal training, and acceptable training. Without a power rack, you can’t train ideally. That doesn’t mean you can’t get results.[/quote]

Thanks for the good words!

I do not train to failure. I’m training to get stronger and, while I’m at it, get a little bigger too (ie accessory exercises after my strength lifts). It is just that I tend to be grumpy for the rest of the day if I miss a rep, and this tends to make me “take a chance” that I might be able to make that last rep when squatting (or doing anything else).

I’ll drop the box squats for now and go back to the regular squats. We’ll see if I can bust past this plateau.

Thanks folks,
–Me

i was stuck at 200kg squat for months,tried all assistance exercises,gmornings etc,didnt help,what did work and id advise any1 to try this,pmt squat training,progressive movement training,i think there an article on here about it,sums it up good,only advice i would give is add 10kg or 15kg more than your max,i started with 210kg and in 7 weeks i squatted it to below paralell,it works well for deadlift aswell,just dont start to heavy over your max or youll bomb,hope this helps :slight_smile:

Old time strongman Paul Anderson like doing partial squats in a rack (or hole dug in the ground)

You ever pick up an empty container of water expecting the thing to be full ? PRETTY LIGHT WEIGHT , HUH.