Squats for Conditioning

[quote]theBird wrote:
Why would you want to do 180 reps of squats??? Up the weight and do a total of 30 reps instead. Duh.[/quote]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but you should try it and see what it’s like. You might be surprised. I used to use a more conventional rep scheme but have found this type of training to be much more challenging. In my opinion a 30 rep squat day is a fucking joke.

[quote]UB07 wrote:
Dont listen to all the haters. Your capillary density must be very high with this type of training. Also, the amount of lactic acid and hypoxia conditions in the large muscle groups of the legs is likely to cause major growth hormone release.

When Waterbury recommends 100 rep training, or Dan John suggests the tabata method, all the fan-boys are on their nuts hardcore. [/quote]

Funny that you mention the HGH release. It’s one of the thoughts I had around this when I first started working on it. I had read about sprinting causing a growth hormone release after 8 seconds or so of all out sprinting and thought the long sets could have a similar result. My legs and ass have definitely grown in the last 4 or 5 months.

Why not spend some time working your way up to a peak by cutting back on the reps and see what you true 1RM is. Then spend a short time trying heavy singles. When that progress stops, go back to your 20 rep program and see where you start at and how you progress on that program for a few months. See what kind of change there is.

TNT

This is the conditioning thread. Why all of the comments on upping strength?
This looks like hard ass C/V work - just using squats instead of prowler, intervals, burpees, whatever.

[quote]theBird wrote:
Why would you want to do 180 reps of squats??? Up the weight and do a total of 30 reps instead. Duh.[/quote]

Because the best squatters in the world (weightlifters if you didn’t know that) do low volume, right?

[quote]treco wrote:
This is the conditioning thread. Why all of the comments on upping strength?
This looks like hard ass C/V work - just using squats instead of prowler, intervals, burpees, whatever.[/quote]

So many of the forum bullies seem incapable of doing just that. Easier to just try and knock people down I guess.

[quote]CrushKillDestroy wrote:
@ Wilba as usual most people on here only see things from their own perspective.
That sounds like a friggin tough workout, and if you’re a 40 yr old IT worker, I imagine you’ve also got a family and other commitments to work around.
The workout sounds like vomit country to me, and if you’re getting better at it and faster and it’s hurting less, then I guess you’re progressing, right? If it’s also pushing some of your higher weight reps up, then you’re getting something out of it on that side too, as well as some hypertrophy, (unless you’re already pretty big but deconditioned).
In a perfect world there are probably better splits you could do to break strength / hypertrophy / conditioning up to get optimal results for all, but if it’s working for you and you’re progressing, then I wouldn’t bother looking for any other reason to do it.
[/quote]
I agree, a tough workout. Seems that it would be tough to maintain that level over the long haul without some back-off periods. CrushKillDestroy offers encouragement and good perspective, since some of the other posters appear to be shooting from the hip, especially with the dogma of conditioning vs. hypertrophy/strength. Squats are a different mother, and 20-reppers done in multiple sets, with respectable weight, will build toughness, strength, and size. The same can be said for deads. Bottom line—ignore the haters.

I agree that it can be a tough workout because i have done it, but its not the most effective nor should it be part of your regular routine. Just what i was aiming for with my past comment. There are hundreds of other ways to workout more muscle groups with less time in a conditioning workout.

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
Looks to me like you’re training to bounce up and down in a squat position for long periods of time.

Great if you’re looking for a job in gay porn.

Not so much if you’re strength training.

Double the weight.[/quote]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

:))))))))))))

thats brutal!

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]treco wrote:
This is the conditioning thread. Why all of the comments on upping strength?
This looks like hard ass C/V work - just using squats instead of prowler, intervals, burpees, whatever.[/quote]

So many of the forum bullies seem incapable of doing just that. Easier to just try and knock people down I guess. [/quote]

Yeah. Seriously. This seems great for conditioning. He isn’t asking about anything other than conditioning, so why does everybody keep telling him he’s crazy and should do more strength training?

[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
Looks to me like you’re training to bounce up and down in a squat position for long periods of time.

Great if you’re looking for a job in gay porn.

Not so much if you’re strength training.

Double the weight.[/quote]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

:))))))))))))

thats brutal![/quote]

Not brutal, childish and ignorant, sure, but not brutal.

I wasn’t able to squat today but will tomorrow and will post my workout again. I’m not sure yet what I’m going to do. Might be a 20 rep day or a 275lb day. I’ll see how I feel in the morning.

Today’s squats below. I was disappointed in my effort today but hopefully that will motivate me and get me started on an upward progression. I’m going to stick with the 275lb plan for a while as it required the kind of effort I enjoy while increasing the weight a little. I made sure each rep was good and deep.

Set 1 - 135 X 10
Set 2 - 185 X 10
Set 3 - 225 X 20
Set 4 - 275 X 14 - tweaked my lower back on last rep
Set 5 - 275 X 12
Set 6 - 275 X 10
Set 7 - 275 X 10
Set 8 - 275 X 10
Set 9 - 275 X 10
Set 10 - 275 X 8

[quote]Wilba wrote:

[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
Looks to me like you’re training to bounce up and down in a squat position for long periods of time.

Great if you’re looking for a job in gay porn.

Not so much if you’re strength training.

Double the weight.[/quote]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

:))))))))))))

thats brutal![/quote]

Not brutal, childish and ignorant, sure, but not brutal.[/quote]

It’s the same treatment any other one-exercise, non-progressive plan would get here. Sarcastic dismissal.

I wonder, would all your fans be jumping on board if you were doing this many curls and calling it a day?

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:

[quote]Wilba wrote:

[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
Looks to me like you’re training to bounce up and down in a squat position for long periods of time.

Great if you’re looking for a job in gay porn.

Not so much if you’re strength training.

Double the weight.[/quote]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

:))))))))))))

thats brutal![/quote]

Not brutal, childish and ignorant, sure, but not brutal.[/quote]

It’s the same treatment any other one-exercise, non-progressive plan would get here. Sarcastic dismissal.

I wonder, would all your fans be jumping on board if you were doing this many curls and calling it a day?[/quote]

Nope, he’d be an idiot for doing that.

But squats are a technically difficult exercise, using a large muscle mass, and he’s built progression into the plan by increasing the weight and the reps. Therefore, total amount of work done each session = more than the one before.
It’s actually quite an elegant plan in my opinion because it’s so simple, yet has every effect that he wants from it. Training economy.

So thats why i’m a ‘fan’.

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:

It’s the same treatment any other one-exercise, non-progressive plan would get here. Sarcastic dismissal.[/quote]

What’s the big deal? If you don’t like it, then just explain why you don’t like it and have a civil conversation. Tell him where you the think the problems are. See, problem solving in action.

[quote]ArmyMBM wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:

It’s the same treatment any other one-exercise, non-progressive plan would get here. Sarcastic dismissal.[/quote]

What’s the big deal? If you don’t like it, then just explain why you don’t like it and have a civil conversation. Tell him where you the think the problems are. See, problem solving in action.[/quote]

It takes an Army man to tell a Marine he’s being unreasonable. :slight_smile: But yeah, the title of the post clearly states “Squats for Conditioning.” Had the post been titled “Squats for Strength” I probably would have joined in the ridicule (or not since I tend to be constructive). I’ve also considered adding light, high-rep squats to for purposes of conditioning. I was thinking more along the lines of 1-2 sets of 50 as part of a circuit or complex of some sort. So, the question still remains unanswered: What is wrong with doing high-rep squats for conditioning? I don’t see anything wrong with it other than it might cause some loss of maximal squatting strength (but it would certainly increase strength-endurance).

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
It’s the same treatment any other one-exercise, non-progressive plan would get here. Sarcastic dismissal.
[/quote]

What about sprint workouts? That’s one-exercise, one movement, and the only way to progress is to do more, increase distance, decrease rest interval, and/or change the terrain (i.e. hills, sand, etc.). Similarly, the OP can add reps, increase weight, decrease total time it takes to finish, and/or increase his ROM. There are just as many factors at play here that he can tweak to make this workout more challenging each time he does it, yet I’ve never really seen sprint workouts on here get this much negative feedback, even when they carry no indication of progression.

Moreover, give credit where credit is due. I wonder how many people on this site could do 225 for 20. I wonder how many could do the original 180 rep workout he posted. I could be completely wrong, but I imagine it to be quite a small percentage of T-Nation. If Dave Tate posted this exact same workout everyone on here would jump on that bandwagon and start incorporating squat conditioning into their weekly agenda…and, who knows, they might just be humbled by it.

My only negative feedback for the OP is that I’d be pretty pissed if I got held up behind you in the power rack on my squat day…

I really do appreciate all of the constructive posts either pro or con. That’s what this place is supposed to be about, exchanging ideas and experiences. Below is my squat day from May 27th. Less than 5 months ago. If I could only make this type of progress in all my lifts.

Set 1 - 135 X 10
Set 2 - 185 X 10
Set 3 - 225 X 15 - this was a rep PR on 5\27\10
Set 4 - 225 X 15
Set 5 - 225 X 15
Set 6 - 225 X 12
Set 7 - 225 X 12
Set 8 - 225 X 12
Set 9 - 225 X 12
Set 10 - 225 X 12

That’s 125 total reps.

Before testing some heavier weight last week I’d never squatted 275lbs for more than 7 reps and 315lbs only once or twice for a single. I’ve crushed those previous marks. So much for not progressing.

To clarify why I did the original 180 workout several weeks in a row was because once I was able to it the first time I didn’t want to not be able to do it again. I needed to keep repeating that performance to make it something I know I can do whenever I want not something I did once in my life. I’m there and moving on now but believe me it was really hard to build up to.