Squats at Beginning or End of Session?

[Koing]

[quote]NeoSpringy wrote:
I heard that back squat has better transfer to snatch, where as front squat better transfer to clean and jerk.
the second is obvious but not so sure about the BS → snatch transfer???[/quote]

Where did you hear this?

For me Front Squat is an easier measure of suitability then the Back squat. Most people hack their back squats up, but you can’t hack a front squat so much. Generally the front squat is much stricter then most people’s back squat as it’s harder to cheat a front squat. It doesn’t mean jack sh!t if you can back squat XXX if you can’t front squat it out of the Clean receive position.

[quote]alexus wrote:
I wondered about that… Figured that overhead squatting for snatch would be like front squatting for clean. Overhead squatting does (to me) feel a bit more like back squatting in the sense that you are able to sit your butt back more with a balanced bar (if your shoulder flexibility is good). Someone suggested that the squat component of the snatch wasn’t typically the limiting factor, though (but its possible I’m misrepresenting that).[/quote]

Overhead squats imo aren’t needed if you can front and back squat ‘strictly’ with good form. But it may work for you if you have certain issues/ weaknesses. You already have the flexibility and it just isn’t really needed imo. A few lifters do it but on the whole most don’t do it once they are beyond beginner, have gained the flexibility to snatch properly. People are rarely strength limited in getting out of the whole in the Snatch. Of course if you don’t have the flexibility to Snatch/ OHS, the OHS is a good way to work your mobility.

If you squat Jerk then yeah, you’ll be hammering the OHS.

Koing

[alexus]

Cool, I thought it was you that said that, but I didn’t want to misrepresent you in case I misunderstood.

I am very much a beginner so am finding ATG back squats useful for helping me get lower in overhead squatting and hoping I’ll be able to utilize that range of motion in snatching one day. So flexibility, yeah.

I’m probably never going to be impressive with the amount of weight I can move, so I’ve decided to focus on developing the best technique I can. I mean, I’m always happy to see the weight go up (and as I get stronger I need greater weight to properly practice technique), but with my prematurely beat up body I’d rather live to train another day than injure myself attempting something that isn’t terribly impressive anyway lol.

Also this:

“There are a lot of girls who are a lot stronger than I am. But - and that’s the thing that is awesome about Olympic style weightlifting - that with technique and speed you can really maneuver the bar in a certain way and it just kind of lifts itself up there.”

• Natalie Woolfolk

The back squatting is getting me re-thinking the way I’m front squatting, though…

Either it is helping me, or I’m getting that motor interference thing going on

In particular the whole ‘sitting down vs back’ thing (again, sorry).

I’ve been trying to front squat by getting my legs out of the way and sitting my torso straight down between my legs.

I don’t have a problem keeping my torso upright and elbows up. I don’t lose the bar forwards (I’ll fail a squat before trying to forwards lean it up). I definitely squat well below parallel - but I am having some trouble feeling out the bottom. I don’t think I have much tension in the hole because if I just sit with the bar in the hole in a relaxed squat for a bit I can stand up about as much as I can squat up.

The idea of box squatting a front squat confused the hell out of me. You can’t sit your butt straight down and end up on a box that is placed behind you. I’ve also heard people say ‘a certain amount of forward lean in a front squat is inevitable’ which also confused the hell out of me. If you sit your torso straight down then there isn’t any forward lean. I guess in both of these cases they are thinking that you sit your butt back in a front squat.

And now I’m thinking… That if you sit your butt back then you can get good tension in the hole (like with a back squat - you can feel the bottom) and then I see how you can initiate the ascent with your glutes. So then… With respect to keeping your torso upright… If you have the spinal flexibility I see how you can do that. If you don’t have the spinal flexibility I see how a certain amount of forward lean would be inevitable.

A bit confused. Probably over-thinking things…

[Koing]

alexus your over analysing it…

Don’t be scared to lift heavier weights. Just go as much as you feel comfy with, you have to push the boundaries but as a beginner don’t go crazy over it mate.

Don’t be a pu$$y. If you think you’ll never lift big weights you will never lift big weights. Just be positive and go and train your f0cking ass off in the gym. The weights will come up mate, it just takes time and consistency.

Why is your body beat up?

Back squating and front squating will not have motor interference. They are pretty dam similar IF YOU CAN SQUAT PROPERLY. If you can front squat strict chances are your back squat will be STRICT. If you can’t front squat strictly your ATG oly back squat will more then likely not be strict. Post up a video and this will be easily apprent.

Always sit down between your legs, not backwards. That doesn’t help you OLift more sitting backwards.

You can do paused front squats. Go down to the hole. Pause 2-3seconds HOLDING TENSION and then exploding up. This will teach you to be ‘strong’ at the bottom. You should not be relaxed.

In a perfect world you’d have no lean forwards but the fact is you will lean forwards very slightly. It’s no biggie. YOU CAN’T LEAN FORWARDS MUCH ON A FRONT SQUAT without breaking your wrists or the bar falling down. NO TWO WAYS ABOUT IT MATE. You can lean forwards like a mofo on a backsquat though.

Don’t think too much. Just train, post some videos. Some people take too much advice on from everybody.

PARALYSIS BY ANALYSIS

When I coach my lifters I point out 2things. Yes they may have 5 things to work on but the fact is you can change 1-2 things at a time. If you tell them 5 things they’ll get nothing done. So it takes a few cycles to get things going. Chance 1-2 things, then move on to the next thing and hopefully they still do at least 1 of the 2 things we worked on a few weeks/ months ago. This is how it is mate.

Koing

[alexus]

Yeah, I think my biggest problem is probably self doubt. Except for my snatches. There is some self preservation going on there…

Another poster posted some vids of him doing front and back squats (olympic), and they looked good to me, and I think I’m doing alright

Probably not perfect… But good enough to push up the weight and get stronger.

I summarized my injuries here:

Beginners Gains

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my (probably annoying) questions. I need to have a working conception of what I’m supposed to be up to. And I need to know why… It’s been my downfall, really. Ask ‘why’ too many times and you end up doing something totally useless like a PhD in Philosophy. Sigh.

Back to the gym tomorrow.