and what about the value of doing a variety? Split squats, high bar-ATG, low powerlifting, etc. They all have their place
Always squat as low as you can possibly go. Your calves should be touching your hammies. Take a look at the Olympic lifers. You don’t see any of them doing squats to parallel. You may have to decrease the amount of weight you use but it is worth it. I have always had a problem listening to people tell me what they squat for weight and when I see them in action, understand why the numbers are so high. High bar squats done as low as possible are the way to go. It isn’t easy but the rewards from doing it right are worth it.
[quote]kroby wrote:
Shadowzz4 wrote:
YAWN. Apparently this thread is needed for you because you didnt learn anything the other 500 times this subject was posted. This thread seems to be about the use of ATG squats not whether or not a powerlifter is strong. We are talking about whether or not is good to use ATG squats.
Powerlifters are strong as shit but basically work on doing a bastardized good morning/squat hybrid so they can get the weight up. Not applicable to this conversation.
My bad. I didn’t know strength was not an issue. Continue with your weak ATG’s.[/quote]
Tell that to Tom Platz and Ronnie Coleman. Name one powerlifter who has more impressive legs than those two.
Go as low as you can go with an empty bar. Then if you can’t go that low with your squatting weight without getting stuck or chickening out, use half the weight and build up from there. I’ve done that several times over the years and as my squatting form got lower, my poundage and thigh size went up. Parallels are not good enough.
[quote]USNS physique wrote:
This is another area where genetics is for some reason or other ignored. I have a female friend who has never done any sort of weight training and her VM is better than most men’s. Then, of course, are the guys who go parallel or 3 inches above and have awesome VMs.
Doesn’t matter who you cite. If you lack the genetic make up to build a good VM you will never have one; if you have the raw material, you will develop it with NO special moves, no particular depth, just like Lee Priest’s forearms…which he never trains directly.
Let’s not blow sunshine.[/quote]
Aren’t you tired of living the genetic copout lifestyle? You have a fantastic outlook on training. Why even come here? Why train at all?
[quote]greekdawg wrote:
USNS physique wrote:
This is another area where genetics is for some reason or other ignored. I have a female friend who has never done any sort of weight training and her VM is better than most men’s. Then, of course, are the guys who go parallel or 3 inches above and have awesome VMs.
Doesn’t matter who you cite. If you lack the genetic make up to build a good VM you will never have one; if you have the raw material, you will develop it with NO special moves, no particular depth, just like Lee Priest’s forearms…which he never trains directly.
Let’s not blow sunshine.
Aren’t you tired of living the genetic copout lifestyle? You have a fantastic outlook on training. Why even come here? Why train at all?[/quote]
If there is a muscle that has a great ability for hypertrophy with everyone I would say it is the VMO. That muscle is asked to do alot of work with deep squatting. You definitely can hit the muscle hard with lunges and parallel squats and some people will get great development out of these exercises.
But doing deep front, back and hack squats places a huge demand on this muscle. And if you can squat deep (ATG)with a stable knee out of the hole, or you can develop a stable knee out of the hole, in my opinion, it is almost exclusively because of VMO strengthening that this happens. You dont really have to even think about it. Just get deep and it happens.
There is this guy at my gym that was doing split squats with 275 on the bar. His ROM was about 1/5 of a good split squat, and Im like damn man how much can you back squat if you are split squatting 275. He is like “I dont like back squatting with the free bar, I dont know how people do it, I think it is dangerous for the back, I use the Smith Machine”
Here is an example of a guy who does smith machine squats, and heavy split squats and is a very strong guy, but has shitty form. And if you look at his upper thigh, it is pretty damn big, but if you just looked at the quad development around his knee he looks like a runner, there is just nothing there.
[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
kroby wrote:
Shadowzz4 wrote:
YAWN. Apparently this thread is needed for you because you didnt learn anything the other 500 times this subject was posted. This thread seems to be about the use of ATG squats not whether or not a powerlifter is strong. We are talking about whether or not is good to use ATG squats.
Powerlifters are strong as shit but basically work on doing a bastardized good morning/squat hybrid so they can get the weight up. Not applicable to this conversation.
My bad. I didn’t know strength was not an issue. Continue with your weak ATG’s.
Tell that to Tom Platz and Ronnie Coleman. Name one powerlifter who has more impressive legs than those two.
[/quote]
Dude, come on, what is this - Bodybuilding.com?
“Ronnie is huge…he is strong 2 d00d”
Seriously, this discussion is (as far as I could tell) about what WE as non-genetic freaks/excessive steroid users/pro whatevers can do for maximal development. What does Ronnie Coleman have to do with my development and training?
If you disagree with powerlifting style squats, or whatever, for development purposes, citing Ronnie Freaking Coleman as an example is the worst illustration you could use and basically makes you look ignorant.
Sorry, but that’s like saying “This strategy worked for four people out of seven billion! Tell them it doesn’t work.”
[quote]conwict wrote:
MytchBucanan wrote:
kroby wrote:
Shadowzz4 wrote:
YAWN. Apparently this thread is needed for you because you didnt learn anything the other 500 times this subject was posted. This thread seems to be about the use of ATG squats not whether or not a powerlifter is strong. We are talking about whether or not is good to use ATG squats.
Powerlifters are strong as shit but basically work on doing a bastardized good morning/squat hybrid so they can get the weight up. Not applicable to this conversation.
My bad. I didn’t know strength was not an issue. Continue with your weak ATG’s.
Tell that to Tom Platz and Ronnie Coleman. Name one powerlifter who has more impressive legs than those two.
Dude, come on, what is this - Bodybuilding.com?
“Ronnie is huge…he is strong 2 d00d”
Seriously, this discussion is (as far as I could tell) about what WE as non-genetic freaks/excessive steroid users/pro whatevers can do for maximal development. What does Ronnie Coleman have to do with my development and training?
If you disagree with powerlifting style squats, or whatever, for development purposes, citing Ronnie Freaking Coleman as an example is the worst illustration you could use and basically makes you look ignorant.
Sorry, but that’s like saying “This strategy worked for four people out of seven billion! Tell them it doesn’t work.”[/quote]
Good point. If you had to pick a group of people that all had excellent VMO development wouldnt you have to pick olympic lifters at any level?
There are advantages to both squatting styles.(pl,ol)
The powerlifter that can squat 700 PL style raw will surely be able to drop that weight to 550lb and squat it high bar ATG (flexibility allowing). Im not sure if the same could be said for the O-lifter who works up to 550lb ATG. I just dont see them adding 150lbs and altering their style and squatting it.
Thats my argument for Pl style squats.
I don’t understand what the point is of even discussing this. Clearly some people can do them, and some people can’t. As for as muscle activation going to parallel and doing ATG is going to active muscles in different ways, so why not just do both? As long as your not a half rep hero your going to get strong as fuck either way if you spend enough time on it.
[quote]coffee wrote:
There are advantages to both squatting styles.(pl,ol)
The powerlifter that can squat 700 PL style raw will surely be able to drop that weight to 550lb and squat it high bar ATG (flexibility allowing). Im not sure if the same could be said for the O-lifter who works up to 550lb ATG. I just dont see them adding 150lbs and altering their style and squatting it.
Thats my argument for Pl style squats.[/quote]
Right, keep believing that. The strongest squatters in the world are olympic squatters.
Besides, how many PLers can squat “700” raw? Not many…
Like others have said, you hit the VM harder te lower you go.