Squat Training for Strength Sports

Bigger Stronger Leaner
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[quote]nkklllll wrote:

[quote]DobermanUSMC wrote:
LoRez and nkklllll,

I am not saying training the squat just for numbers in the squat, what I am saying is that I want to strengthen the posterior chain because I believe that is fundamental to build on anything in the strength sports. With that said, I have always been under the impression that the squat was the key to strengthening those muscles and that’s what I feel like I need the most.

Thanks for the input.[/quote]

Well, your reasoning sounds like “my squat is weak, so I’ll just push that.” You can do a lot for your lifting by just working on technique. I’ve had quad tendonosis for almost the last year. I couldn’t squat for that entire time. And, I couldn’t full snatch or c&j either because my knees couldn’t take it. So, instead, I did pull from blocks at mid shin and from the knee 3x a week, lots of weighted hyperextensions, and lots of overhead strength work. And lots of RDLs (snatch and clean grip). Less than a month into training the clean and snatch again I’d brought my 1rm up from 56kg in the snatch and 85kg in the c&j to 77.5kg and 102.5kg. On top of that, both my squat and front squat increased about 10kg (from 143-150, and 120-127).

You need to squat. No doubt about it. But more than that you need to actually get better at one of the sports you want to compete in. If it’s Olympic lifting, push your squat with something like Texas Method or Madcow (or even starting strength) and drill technique for an hour afterwards. Then, do some overhead work like push presses from the front rack, and with a snatch grip. [/quote]

Thanks. What I want is a program like one you are suggesting that will strengthen my posterior chain and I feel like the best way is through the squat. Would you recommend just sticking straight to overhead work since the lower body should be too taxed at this point to perform the entire lift?

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[quote]DobermanUSMC wrote:

[quote]nkklllll wrote:

[quote]DobermanUSMC wrote:

You need to squat. No doubt about it. But more than that you need to actually get better at one of the sports you want to compete in. If it’s Olympic lifting, push your squat with something like Texas Method or Madcow (or even starting strength) and drill technique for an hour afterwards. Then, do some overhead work like push presses from the front rack, and with a snatch grip. [/quote]

Thanks. What I want is a program like one you are suggesting that will strengthen my posterior chain and I feel like the best way is through the squat. Would you recommend just sticking straight to overhead work since the lower body should be too taxed at this point to perform the entire lift?
[/quote]

I’m going to address olympic lifting, since that is what I know best: No. I would say that you should run Texas Method for you squat. M=Volume (5x5, same weight across sets), W= light back squats, or medium-heavy front squats for 4x5, F= set a new 5, 3, or 1rm (I prefer doing rep PRs).

On Mon and Wed I would suggest squatting be the last big thing you do. Friday, I would try and squat first, you have more energy, less fatigue, etc.

All three days I would tell you drill technique hard, not going above 50kg in the snatch and not above 70kg in the c&j. Spend the majority of your time below those weights, making sure you are hitting the right positions at the right times. Look up Glenn Pendlay’s technique progressions on youtube (titled how to snatch and how to clean).

On Monday and Wednesday, do technique in the classic lifts first, working in multiple sets of 3-5 for the snatch and I would say sets of 2 for the C&J. These are the numbers I preferred when learning technique, YMMV. Then add more weight on the bar and do either clean or snatch pulls. These are not deadlifts so they should be very explosive. I was working with 60kg snatch pulls when I could snatch deadlift around 115kg. These are to help build strength in the positions you just practiced. Do these for 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps. After this: Squat.

This should be the majority of your program. If you need overhead strength (especially snatch overhead strength) add it in. I like volume work for pressing, that’s what works best for me. I’ve been running 5x5 for the last 3 months.

So, a program that was 3 days a week would look something like this:

Mon:
Snatch technique(20-30min)
Clean technique (20-30min)
Snatch or Clean Pull 3-5 sets of 3-5reps
Squat 5x5
Hyperextensions 3x12 (3x10 if weighted at 20kg or higher)
Opt: Snatch grip Push Press: 3x5

Wed:
Snatch Technique
Clean Technique
Jerk from Blocks (or rack) 5x2 (I like going as heavy as I can in the jerk, but I think I’m a good jerker so again YMMV)
Front Squat: 4x5 (weight is same across sets)
Hyperextensions

Friday:
Squat: New 5, 3, or 1rm
Snatch Technique
Clean and Jerk Technique
Overhead Press from front rack position: 5x5

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[quote]DobermanUSMC wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
I have presented no argument. I have merely stated my opinion. What can i say that would not illicit an over defensive response from you?

If i had stated that i have done military service myself and put on 30lbs on top of 40lbs gained prior to enlistment and did my first 405lb squat 2 days after a 60km march, would you accuse me of being on gear as well?[/quote]

No I would not accuse of being on gear. As I stated, if you were running with that same volume needed to a sub 18 (which I did), and simultaneously raised your squat to over 400 I would say you were on gear. I am sure you did some sort of high speed low drag job to be hiking 60KM and your results are still impressive, but again I admitted my programming was off and no one (including you) are doing PRs in distance running and in the squat rack without gear.[/quote]

You make a lot of invalid assumptions which I’m not interested in pursuing any further.

I would advise you, however, to not do the same with your training if you don’t want to spend a prolonged period of time spinning your wheels.

You have been given very good advice in this thread.

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For your technique stuff I would say just work on doing the full lifts, or as much of them as you can.

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Good stuff. I’ll try that out too when I’m done with my current training phase. Thanks. Olympic lifts are just so damn addictive lol.

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Depending on your actual goals, you could try the Gant Grimes Hybrid program
4 days a week:
Mon:
Snatch
Back Squat
HIIT

Tuesday:
Clean and Jerk
Front Squat
Pullups

Thursday:
Snatch
Back Squat
HIIT

Friday:
Clean and Jerk
RDL or Deadlift
Overhead Press

Hyperextensions 2-3x a week, preferably weighted
Linear progression on all strength lifts (squats, pull ups, deadlifts, presses, etc)
At the end of each session, pick 1 body part (shoulders, bis, tris, chest) and do one isolatione exercise for that body part. Just enough reps and sets to get a pump.

You can change the strength lifts around to fit whatever your priorities are. This is what I used when I was injured. My strength lifts were bench on monday, RDL and pull ups on tuesday, overhead press on thursday, and my last training day were heavy snatch and clean pullls and jerks.

I have a log on here if you want to see what the last 2-3 months of my training looked like.