I want to eventually get into training for Olympic Lifting, Strongman, and Powerlifting. I realize going forward I won’t be great at any of these but I believe you can make gains all 3 with the right routine be it periodization or simply devoting a day a week to each one. Also having a workout where you do Atlas Stones one day and a clean jerk in a later workout is fun and breaks up the monotony.
It seems like for the most part, if you can’t squat, you can’t really do anything.
You may have good oly lifting technique, but without the squat increasing it doesn’t like your Clean and Jerk or Snatch will increase on their own once technique is good.
In Powerlifting, your the squat is part of a competed event. From what I can gather, the squat feeds the deadlift, while the deadlift does not necessarily feed the squat. With that said you’ll give your totals up much faster and make bigger numbers with the deadlift and squat because you move more weight with those muscle groups.
In Strongman, it seems like virtually every event involves a strong posterior chain and core. It seems like the squat would feet any event where you are required to walk with weight from the Yoke, to Conans Wheel. It also seems like the Atlas Stones depend on the same muscle group and being powerful on the pickup and stand up.
Also, as I stated in another thread I train Judo some and many throws involve the same motor patterns of the squat when lowering your center of gravity.
It seems like all these sports require some version of the squat to be successful rather it’s a low bar or high bar version.
With all that said, my squat is very low. I can only do about 315 high bar into full depth and I weight about 208. I am considering something like the Smolov Squat routine or something to get my squat up and feed into these other activities. Perhaps I can change the kind of bar or movement up from one day to the next doing something like a cambered bar on one day and a front squat the next.
Am I off base on my logic here or is the squat worth overcompensating for when your max is low like mine?
The squat is good no doubt. But I don’t understand the point of your post.
Why are you training the squat to partake in things you want to do IN THE FUTURE? Why can’t you, for, eample, start training the olympic lifts now since you appreciate the fact that they are very technical in nature and need a long time to master?
Also, why is your squat so low after 3 years of training? You need to know what you’ve been doing wrong before you jump on to some program if you want to improve.
I know what I’ve been doing wrong, it’s been trying to improve a PFT run time while raising my squat as well. I was also 6 foot 170 when I began lifting 3 years ago.
I am not saying that I should not perform these lifts. What I am saying is that until my squat goes up the focus of my regimen should around improving that number. You can have the best form in the world but if without the strength you won’t see gains.
[quote]DobermanUSMC wrote:
I know what I’ve been doing wrong, it’s been trying to improve a PFT run time while raising my squat as well. I was also 6 foot 170 when I began lifting 3 years ago. [/quote]
Nope. That’s not a good reason.
[quote]
I am not saying that I should not perform these lifts. What I am saying is that until my squat goes up the focus of my regimen should around improving that number. You can have the best form in the world but if without the strength you won’t see gains.[/quote]
How about this? Spend the next 4-6 weeks focusing intensely on getting your squat up (keep a few other lifts in there though). Use whatever intensive program you think will work best for you.
Then, once you get that out of your system, go back to something reasonable.
Your thought process is a little silly, but once upon a time, 50 years ago or so, it was pretty normal for trainers to recommend a “break” from their normal lifting to focus purely on power development for a month or two. If you google the phrase “basic power training program”, you should find a number of these. But mostly they were lots of squats, benches/presses, rows and deadlift/sldl/rdls, and then lots of food to go along with it. Then, back to “normal” training.
If this idea of “I need to get better at squats to be good at anything else” is what’s really holding you back from moving on, by all means, get yourself past that point. Just don’t focus on squats exclusively forever.
[quote]DobermanUSMC wrote:
I am not saying that I should not perform these lifts. What I am saying is that until my squat goes up the focus of my regimen should around improving that number. You can have the best form in the world but if without the strength you won’t see gains.[/quote]
This sounds okay, but your motivation is flawed. In training the olympic lifts as a beginner, your workouts will not be very fatiguing or require much of your recovery potential. So, as you work on technique, slowly building up your numbers in the snatch and clean&jerk, you should continue to build up your squat. If you want to be even mediocre at olympic lifting you need to start training those lifts at least 2x a week as early as possible.
Look at your statement conversely: you could be one of the strongest guys in the world, but if your technique sucks you won’t see any gains.
[quote]DobermanUSMC wrote:
I know what I’ve been doing wrong, it’s been trying to improve a PFT run time while raising my squat as well. I was also 6 foot 170 when I began lifting 3 years ago. [/quote]
Nope. That’s not a good reason.
[quote]
I am not saying that I should not perform these lifts. What I am saying is that until my squat goes up the focus of my regimen should around improving that number. You can have the best form in the world but if without the strength you won’t see gains.[/quote]
Your thought process is ridiculous. [/quote]
And a very informative argument you have presented as well.
I don’t care to have a pissing contest with you but I doubt you are running sub 18 3 milers and deep squatting in the 500s without gear.
I am not saying training the squat just for numbers in the squat, what I am saying is that I want to strengthen the posterior chain because I believe that is fundamental to build on anything in the strength sports. With that said, I have always been under the impression that the squat was the key to strengthening those muscles and that’s what I feel like I need the most.
I am not attempting to neglect Olympic lifts in my programming, what I am suggesting is that I need to heavily compensate where I am weakest. I just now feel like I have a decent squat clean form and I certainly wouldn’t want to relearn that after spending several months ignoring it.
I have presented no argument. I have merely stated my opinion. What can i say that would not illicit an over defensive response from you?
If i had stated that i have done military service myself and put on 30lbs on top of 40lbs gained prior to enlistment and did my first 405lb squat 2 days after a 60km march, would you accuse me of being on gear as well?
I am not saying training the squat just for numbers in the squat, what I am saying is that I want to strengthen the posterior chain because I believe that is fundamental to build on anything in the strength sports. With that said, I have always been under the impression that the squat was the key to strengthening those muscles and that’s what I feel like I need the most.
Thanks for the input.[/quote]
Well, your reasoning sounds like “my squat is weak, so I’ll just push that.” You can do a lot for your lifting by just working on technique. I’ve had quad tendonosis for almost the last year. I couldn’t squat for that entire time. And, I couldn’t full snatch or c&j either because my knees couldn’t take it. So, instead, I did pull from blocks at mid shin and from the knee 3x a week, lots of weighted hyperextensions, and lots of overhead strength work. And lots of RDLs (snatch and clean grip). Less than a month into training the clean and snatch again I’d brought my 1rm up from 56kg in the snatch and 85kg in the c&j to 77.5kg and 102.5kg. On top of that, both my squat and front squat increased about 10kg (from 143-150, and 120-127).
You need to squat. No doubt about it. But more than that you need to actually get better at one of the sports you want to compete in. If it’s Olympic lifting, push your squat with something like Texas Method or Madcow (or even starting strength) and drill technique for an hour afterwards. Then, do some overhead work like push presses from the front rack, and with a snatch grip.
[quote]dt79 wrote:
^see how damn good his progress and numbers are?
Are you going to ignore his extremely sound advice and continue with what you are doing that has brought you minimal results?[/quote]
No need for sarcasm. I have no delusions about my strength levels.[/quote]
I was not being sarcastic. I am really impressed by your strength levels and how you adapted your lifting to your injuries. I’m sorry if what i wrote came across that way.
I also feel you give very good advice. I am hoping the OP will follow it.
[quote]dt79 wrote:
^see how damn good his progress and numbers are?
Are you going to ignore his extremely sound advice and continue with what you are doing that has brought you minimal results?[/quote]
No need for sarcasm. I have no delusions about my strength levels.[/quote]
I was not being sarcastic. I am really impressed by your strength levels and how you adapted your lifting to your injuries. I’m sorry if what i wrote came across that way.
I also feel you give very good advice. I am hoping the OP will follow it.[/quote]
[quote]dt79 wrote:
I have presented no argument. I have merely stated my opinion. What can i say that would not illicit an over defensive response from you?
If i had stated that i have done military service myself and put on 30lbs on top of 40lbs gained prior to enlistment and did my first 405lb squat 2 days after a 60km march, would you accuse me of being on gear as well?[/quote]
No I would not accuse of being on gear. As I stated, if you were running with that same volume needed to a sub 18 (which I did), and simultaneously raised your squat to over 400 I would say you were on gear. I am sure you did some sort of high speed low drag job to be hiking 60KM and your results are still impressive, but again I admitted my programming was off and no one (including you) are doing PRs in distance running and in the squat rack without gear.