T Nation

Squat/Rdl Form Check

After all the help I recieved on my deadlift thought I would see if I could get any hints or tips on the exercises mentioned above
Thanks in advance

Hey man, very nice squats I like your form and execution, and overall I don’t see anything too big at all to fix up.

YOu’ve got weightlifting shoes, and for a good squat I find that’s half the battle a lot of the time.

Your execution of the lift is excellent, you’re breaking at the hips and knees simultaneously and for a raw squat that’s important, you need that for your knees to get as forward as possible and stay upright which lets you bring more quads into the squat, and all things being equal, it’s the quads that are the limiting factor in the squat, as if you get out of the hole, most times glutes and hams are strong enough to finish the lift.

Bar position looks good, and you’ve got a nice proud chest, also important, If you get another chance maybe show another angle where I can see what’s going on with your rack position a bit better, but it’s not a huge deal, just maake sure you’re squeezing your shoulder blads together as tight as you can.

Depth is great, you’re getting some hamstring calf contact and that gives a good rebound.

The one thing I noticed was a bit of pelvic rounding at and below parallel, as well as your butt slightly shooting back. The butt shooting back suggests that you simply have stronger quads than glutes, and that’s a good thing, but might also suggest trouble getting out of the hole on heavier squats, where do you usually miss?

The pelvic rounding is simply tight hamstrings, but I wouldn’t even say that tight, I train with a guy who’s so tight there he completely falls forward on every single squat, but insists his form is good…/rolls eyes/.

Something you may want to try, and will likely help your deadlift as well, is this video, dynamic warm ups are good as they don’t destroy the stretch reflex and if you want to squat big it’s much better to be so tight your patellar tendons hurt, IMHO. It’s a modified joe defranco warm up, and I did something extremely similar for 18ish months and it really fixed me up.

Cheers man, let me know if you have any questions, and very nice squats

Hi larry10 once again thank you for your advice. I’ve Also added to this post my RDL as I didn’t know if this might help point out as to what is wrong with my deadlift, thanks mate really appreciate it!

they look fine to me man, you let your low back go every so slightly on the way up, but who cares, they’re more than good enough. Very good form. You may want to try them in your weightlifting shoes.

What kind of squat are you trying to do. Since this a powerlifting forum, I’ll assume it’s a power squat. I noticed that your knees are extended way past your toes at the bottom of the squat. You may want to sit back and down. This will activate more muscles and fibers. While increasing knee longevity. The bar could also be placed lower on your back so that the bar is over your heels not in front of them. Lowering the bar and sitting back will help to put the bar over your heels.

You may want to look at some videos of some raw lifters. I would recommend Scott Yard, April Mathis, Eric Lilliebridge, and Stan Efferding

Considering that you are wearing weightlifting shoes, you are still putting way too much emphasis on the quads. I’d like to see a vid of the squats without the shoes.

To see what I’m talking about, check out the mirror in the back. Every time you squat back up, you drop your chest pretty far forward (considering you have oly shoes on). Everytime you shoot forward at the bottom your quads help you get enough momentum up so the back and hammies can can help you out, instead of helping you the entire time. This means you are losing pounds from not hitting the backside.

It’s not great to say that quads should be stronger than glutes, idk where Larry got that, but your squat is not going to get much better unless you bring up those hams and glutes. It’s ok to have weakpoints, but I wouldn’t say it’s fine.

Lastly, drop your elbows below the bar on your way out the hole. When you squat up you flare your elbows up, which throws more bar weight forward

good catch, I meant to say stronger hams/glutes than quads

[quote]VTTrainer wrote:
Considering that you are wearing weightlifting shoes, you are still putting way too much emphasis on the quads. I’d like to see a vid of the squats without the shoes.

To see what I’m talking about, check out the mirror in the back. Every time you squat back up, you drop your chest pretty far forward (considering you have oly shoes on). Everytime you shoot forward at the bottom your quads help you get enough momentum up so the back and hammies can can help you out, instead of helping you the entire time. This means you are losing pounds from not hitting the backside.

It’s not great to say that quads should be stronger than glutes, idk where Larry got that, but your squat is not going to get much better unless you bring up those hams and glutes. It’s ok to have weakpoints, but I wouldn’t say it’s fine.

Lastly, drop your elbows below the bar on your way out the hole. When you squat up you flare your elbows up, which throws more bar weight forward

[/quote]

hey man, I like your post, but do you not realize he has to lean forward just to keep the bar over his center of mass? being his feet?

Also, once you go below parallel, due to the moment arm of the knee extensors being greater than that of the hip extensors, there’s less demand on the hips and hamstrings and they play more of a stabilization role? Meaning, to go below parallel, the knees have to move forward, you can’t get below parallel if you’re sitting back the whole time, I’ve never seen someone be able to do it. I don’t think it’s physically impossible, but I’m pretty sure it is. And even if you could, you would never be able to get out of the hole anyways as the quads just won’t have the stretch reflex.

Also, you keep talking about how he’s leaning forward, I disagree, his torso goes forward a bit one a couple reps, but he’ll figure that out. Also, if he sits back more, he’ll have to lean even further forward.

Also, I don’t really understand what you’re recomending with his elbows, but you want to throw the weight forward on a squat you already feel is pitching forward?

Kids squat is more than fine, end of story.

@Larry : Well, it’s possible for some people to go below parallel without having the knee to move forward. I mean, it all depends on your ankle region. Actually, it depends on the size of your talus and tibia. Some people are born with anatomic variations which permits them to go below parallel without moving knees moving forward. Just go see a couple of Oly lifters. Since the talus and the tibia are bones, well, it’s not really possible to improve that part of your training techniques because of the contact of the bones.

[quote]Brads91 wrote:
Hi larry10 once again thank you for your advice. I’ve Also added to this post my RDL as I didn’t know if this might help point out as to what is wrong with my deadlift, thanks mate really appreciate it! [/quote]

The only two things I could notice here were that you looked into the mirror on the first rep and that you didn’t really keep a neutral head position throughout.

I started doing RDL looking away from the mirror at my gym (which is right in front of the power racks) and focusing on keeping a neutral upper spine; I found this way I could focus much more on my hip thrust. I also brought some lightish dumbbell (or kettlebell) swings in as warm-ups to focus on balance and activating the glutes.

[quote]Bobinini wrote:
@Larry : Well, it’s possible for some people to go below parallel without having the knee to move forward. I mean, it all depends on your ankle region. Actually, it depends on the size of your talus and tibia. Some people are born with anatomic variations which permits them to go below parallel without moving knees moving forward. Just go see a couple of Oly lifters. Since the talus and the tibia are bones, well, it’s not really possible to improve that part of your training techniques because of the contact of the bones.[/quote]

Thanks for that post man, makes sense to me.

But I disagree about the oly lifters, their knees go way over their toes.

[quote]Larry10 wrote:

[quote]VTTrainer wrote:
Considering that you are wearing weightlifting shoes, you are still putting way too much emphasis on the quads. I’d like to see a vid of the squats without the shoes.

To see what I’m talking about, check out the mirror in the back. Every time you squat back up, you drop your chest pretty far forward (considering you have oly shoes on). Everytime you shoot forward at the bottom your quads help you get enough momentum up so the back and hammies can can help you out, instead of helping you the entire time. This means you are losing pounds from not hitting the backside.

It’s not great to say that quads should be stronger than glutes, idk where Larry got that, but your squat is not going to get much better unless you bring up those hams and glutes. It’s ok to have weakpoints, but I wouldn’t say it’s fine.

Lastly, drop your elbows below the bar on your way out the hole. When you squat up you flare your elbows up, which throws more bar weight forward

[/quote]

hey man, I like your post, but do you not realize he has to lean forward just to keep the bar over his center of mass? being his feet?

Also, once you go below parallel, due to the moment arm of the knee extensors being greater than that of the hip extensors, there’s less demand on the hips and hamstrings and they play more of a stabilization role? Meaning, to go below parallel, the knees have to move forward, you can’t get below parallel if you’re sitting back the whole time, I’ve never seen someone be able to do it. I don’t think it’s physically impossible, but I’m pretty sure it is. And even if you could, you would never be able to get out of the hole anyways as the quads just won’t have the stretch reflex.

Also, you keep talking about how he’s leaning forward, I disagree, his torso goes forward a bit one a couple reps, but he’ll figure that out. Also, if he sits back more, he’ll have to lean even further forward.

Also, I don’t really understand what you’re recomending with his elbows, but you want to throw the weight forward on a squat you already feel is pitching forward?

Kids squat is more than fine, end of story.[/quote]

“Kid’s” squat is fine, you are right, but he posted a form check vid, so I’ll break it down as needed.

When he starts, the bar is over his center of mass, his mid foot. Shooting forward is from weakness or tightness, it’s that simple. His quads have to carry the load, so his body will lean forward to finish the lift. If he shot forward any more he would fall over or his heels would raise up.

You don’t lean forward to finish the lift, you make the bar drops straight down. You have to adjust your knee/hip/back position based on your stature, stance and bar position, but the bar is NEVER supposed to go forward, or back or side to side, it goes down or you are doing it wrong. Moment arms don’t apply, strengths do. I’m not sure why I’m typing all this, because if you look at any info or video by someone who knows something they always say the bar path is a straight line down. End of story.

So no, if he get’s his hips and core up he will be more upright, not have to sit back more. Also, if you check the vid, he is more upright on the way down (again, check the mirror). why? because the load is reduced. When he gets back out the hole the posterior chain cant handle it and he shoots forward.

Also, the elbow thing. He’s tight in the shoulders and when his system is stressed (stress on back from leaning forward, like many people do) his elbows fly up and push the bar forward.

Drop your elbows below the bar as you come out the hole and you should have a better transition. give it a shot

[quote]VTTrainer wrote:
Also, the elbow thing. He’s tight in the shoulders and when his system is stressed (stress on back from leaning forward, like many people do) his elbows fly up and push the bar forward.

Drop your elbows below the bar as you come out the hole and you should have a better transition. give it a shot[/quote]

thank you, I know the technique you’re talking about, I just didn’t personally understand the explanation.

Cool video man



I just wanted to post some video’s by Mark Rippertoe on squattin, hopefully they can help everyone out. Thanks Larry10 for turning me onto his vids. If anyone has a chance check these out there relatively short and he has a bunch worth wacthing on youtube

Didn’t mean to post the last vid.

Here’s the one I wanted to post

[quote]dayoff wrote:



I just wanted to post some video’s by Mark Rippertoe on squattin, hopefully they can help everyone out. Thanks Larry10 for turning me onto his vids. If anyone has a chance check these out there relatively short and he has a bunch worth wacthing on youtube[/quote]

I find Mark explains things better than almost anyone, and keeps it very simple… I don’t fully agree with his squat advice, I find he doesn’t take the quad muscles into account… that being said, I’m trying a low bar power squat right now… it feels horrible and I’m going to switch back to a higher bar squat.

So in summary, work on strengthening my glutes and hamstrings. Stretch out my hips (think this is causing the forward lean) also I couldn’t post a video without my shoes as I can’t get below parralell without a massive forward lean once again due to tight hips would you say? I also have a very limited range of ankle mobility due to a past broken ankle and torn ligaments thanks to football