T Nation

Squat Has Committed Suicide

How much weight have you lost? I ask bc the squat seems to benefit the most from extra body weight (larger midsection=better leverages). Maybe thats playing into the problem, as well as what others have already said

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
I generally agree that it’s likely the diet. However, one change to the training that Wendler suggested to me when I was having a similar problem (although not diet related) w my bench:

Do 351

Week 1 - 70%x3 80%x3 90%xrep out
Week 2 - 65%x5 75%x5 85%x5 (do NOT rep out) OR 65%x3 75%x3 85%x3 (do NOT rep out)
Week 3 - 75x5, 85x3, 95xrep out

Kinda treats the 5’s week as a deload and only has you reppin out w heavier weights. worked well for me
Also - have you considered going to 3 days/week and dropping the deload week?[/quote]

Yeah, I was thinking of switching it up to 3-5-1 but didn’t want to make any rash decisions without exploring other causes that I may not be thinking about…I think this thread has delivered…

If things don’t shape up by the end of this cycle, I will probably do one of these, or just back off another 10% and work my way back up

[quote]Shedosk wrote:
At a seminar, Wendler talked about trying not to serve two masters. You either have to pick strength and eat for it, or train to maintain while getting in better shape. He said initially your numbers will take a hit, but you’ll back to where you were fast AND at a much lower weight (pretty cool!).

Stick with the game plan bro.[/quote]

This is a good point…but I was absolutely dominating this weight before in squats, and much higher weights for more reps…its not that I am upset that I’m not setting PR’s, I can handle that…its that I am absolutely weak as shit in a lift that had previously always been my best…

Also the fact that I have been off the diet and cardio now for a week, and still struggled like shit was my biggest concern!

[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
Heres a question no one asked yet. Were you doing cardio before dieting or just started cardio with the diet?

[/quote]

No cardio before the diet…did a bunch in February, but got the bad news and had to take some time off, and started back up in middle April…

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
How much weight have you lost? I ask bc the squat seems to benefit the most from extra body weight (larger midsection=better leverages). Maybe thats playing into the problem, as well as what others have already said[/quote]

I feel like this nails it…I’ve only lost about 10 pounds, but over 4 inches have been lost in my stomach and like 2.25 in the hipline…this, IMO, is pretty significant and could definitely be impacting my leverages

Last summer I switched to a wider stance with toes out since I had a pretty protruding gut…now that this is not the case (as bad anyway!) this stance seems to be uncomfortable to me even during warmup sets…I didn’t really think about when I switched and all that because it had become natural at this point…maybe next session I should warmup with a narrower stance and see how this feels?

Of all the responses so far, I feel like this one is probably closest to the money (just from gut feel)…this coupled with the increase in cardio that my legs were not used to could definitely explain a lot

Whenever I drop 10+ lb, the reduced abdominal size leads to more caving over and my upper-limit raw squat strength goes down because I end up bent-over like an accordion coming out of the hole. That’s likely contributing to your issues. Just tell yourself that you’ll be in a lower weight class, so you’re not losing any ground. haha

Looking huge in your pick, VT. What kind of recovery stuff are you doing? PVC/Lax ball/ice baths? Maybe dial that stuff in more? As others have said, I’d attribute it mainly to the loss of belly size combined with what looks like a pretty steep increase in overall activity. I know from personal experience that I could squat wider when I was 20 pounds heaver than now, but as I have lost that belly girth I’ve had to move to a closer stance to get some of that belly rebound shit going on.

Go Hokies

Hormone problems? I realized I had low T when not making progress for many months.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
How much weight have you lost? I ask bc the squat seems to benefit the most from extra body weight (larger midsection=better leverages). Maybe thats playing into the problem, as well as what others have already said[/quote]

I feel like this nails it…I’ve only lost about 10 pounds, but over 4 inches have been lost in my stomach and like 2.25 in the hipline…this, IMO, is pretty significant and could definitely be impacting my leverages

Last summer I switched to a wider stance with toes out since I had a pretty protruding gut…now that this is not the case (as bad anyway!) this stance seems to be uncomfortable to me even during warmup sets…I didn’t really think about when I switched and all that because it had become natural at this point…maybe next session I should warmup with a narrower stance and see how this feels?

Of all the responses so far, I feel like this one is probably closest to the money (just from gut feel)…this coupled with the increase in cardio that my legs were not used to could definitely explain a lot[/quote]

yea i would definitely play around with your form until you find something thats more comfortable for you. And your gonna have to continue doing this as you keep losing weight.

For what it is worth, when I’ve added cardio into my program, I’ve found that my squat has suffered the most of all of my lifts. I think in my case it is because my cardio is typically jogging, which is a quad-dominant activity. I don’t find my deadlift, bench or overhead drops, but even if my bodyweight stays the same, my squat almost always goes down a bit.

Hey buddy,

Cool thread title :slight_smile:
Hope you are doing well. Wanted to chime in with two things, one mentioned already.
I too had a huge dip in my squat numbers after testicular cancer. It is to this day the only lift that is still trailing. My dead lift is back up, as is my bench and my military press is actually better. And this is all at less weight then I used to be…

I wanted to mention leverage because I needed to change up my stance as well.
And maybe a period of not doing back squats will work. I switched to front squats for the last 6 months and those numbers are going up. I also added some uphill sled work. That might or might not work with 5/3/1.

I know another guy at the gym who dealt with TC and he too noticed his squat numbers going down after surgery (he had chemo as well). He actually had not squatted in years due to it. Not an option for you but wanted to mention it. Also, after dealing with cancer you will go through ‘weird’ phases as your body adapts. I currently am eating everything that is not nailed down and am still losing weight and there are periods in the gym where I am stronger then ever and there are times I need to gravitate to the pink dumbbells to get a session in :slight_smile:

Hope it works out for you buddy!

Marc.

PS, thanks for that insightful PM from a while ago!

I’ve never dropped much weight but it goes this way for me bench, squat , ( close second ), then deadlift . That’s on order of how much it’s affected by weight loss . The deadlift is hardly affected . Bench the most , but squat close due to the leverage thing .

It should climb back as you build back up .

You might benefit from increasing your mag. All of us are pretty damn mag depleted all the time, and dieting/fat loss/dehydration/fat burners/cardio is only going to make that worse.

Periworkout, if you’re not getting carbs, you’re going to be glycogen deplete, which is not being helped by all the cardio.

And I think that the leverages comment is right on the money. My bodyfat goes up and down by about 5-10lbs worth and I’ve noticed that when I don’t have pinchable ab fat, my squat is always more unstable out of the hole. Always.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
From Cycle 10 in February to Cycle 11 in March, I took 10% off my training max (535 -> 480) because I was planning to start doing a ton of conditioning in March…then I found out I had cancer so that didn’t last long (had the surgery at the end of March–which may actually explain some things, but I was still maintaining and not regressing towards the middle of April)

[/quote]

This seems relevant

What is the goal of training with shelby? What plan of his are you on? Just curious, since I also am working with him.

I also have to agree with a lot of what people are saying here. An decrease in bodyweight is going to change your leverages on the squat-having a gut here is objectively helpful.

In addition, doing cardio 7 days a week is going to impact lifts involving your legs. I am doing a similar cardio arrangement, and there is no way I could hit numbers that I was hitting before I started dieting without training in powerlifting style again and taking in more carbohydrates (I opted to train in shelby’s style).