T Nation

Squat Form: Low Back Injury on 2nd Rep

Injuries and Rehab
#21

[quote]Elastin wrote:

see here http://www.secret-of-athleticism.com/pressure-map-data/

[/quote]

Elastin, is this your website?

I went to the home page and it stated the following:

"Define: Athleticism (in my book)

It is NOT the ability to learn and excel at any sport quickly.
It is NOT hand and eye coordination.
It is NOT the ability to win at any sport.
It IS the ability to jump, land, run, turn and break safely, quickly and optimally with Gluteus Maximus(GM) engaged.
It IS the ability to ENGAGE the Gluteus Maximus(GM)"

I do not disagree regarding the importance of the glute max. (I also happen to believe the glute med/min also play key roles but that’s not what I want to get into.)

What I would like clarification on is the statement that athleticism “is NOT hand and eye coordination.”

I have to take exception to this.

Take hitting a baseball thrown by a Major League pitcher, for example. I believe this is the single most difficult act in all of sports. Even if other legitimate strength and conditioning coaches may disagree with me, I suspect they will at least agree that it is at least one of the most difficult acts in all of sports.

I’ll state the obvious here. Hand/eye coordination plays a tremendous role in batting.

Michael Jordan, by all expert accounts one of the greatest basketball players of all time, had no issue engaging his glute max with his jumps that seemed to defy gravity.

Yet he was nothing short of embarrassing when he attempted to become a Major League baseball player.

This is just one example. There are others in which proprioception takes on a significant role.

It is my professional opinion that, although the engagement of the glutes are important, is NOT the only piece in the puzzle.

Now, I did not purchase the book on the website. However, since you brought up the url, I can only deduce that this website (and the book) is yours OR you are very knowledgeable with the contents of the book.

If this is the case, is it your position that the ability to properly engage the gluteus maximus is the ONLY key to athletic performance?

Being a very good - or even an exceptional athlete - is a complex process.

Being able to lift significant weight without injury is a complex process.

Now, with perfect practice both of the above can and should be done in a near effortless manner. This takes repetition after repetition of perfect practice.

What I’m trying to say is I’m not comfortable with a paradigm that distills the solution to just the glute max.

#22

[quote]replacement wrote:
A little confused about the warnings against dorsiflexion… Seems like dorsiflexion is the standard for pretty much all Olympic squatters. Furthermore, lack of ankle mobility is even specifically highlighted by Robertson, Cressey, etc as an issue squatters should address.

Thoughts? Sento?[/quote]

Yeah, pretty much what you said. Olympic lifters are also among this best jumpers as a population.

Power lifters do sometimes seek to minimize ROM (so that they can move the most weight possible) and maximize the hip movement during squatting by using a wide stance, a low bar position, and primarily moving at the hips. This is fine if you want to powerlift, but hardly the only correct way to squat nor the only way to squat that activates the glutes.

The Gluteus Maximus is primarily a hip extensor (which makes them therefore active during both Oly and PL squatting styles) and hip extension has nothing to do with ankle dorsiflexion. The Gluteus Medius on the other hand is a hip Abductor and hip rotator and is the muscle most likely not activated correctly if someone’s knees are collapsing inwards during squats.

#23

[quote]Elastin wrote:

dorsiflexion is the ability to move your toe towards your shin, when the ankle between your foot and shin is less than 90 degree, this is
in a dorsiflexion state. You cannot possibly engage your glutes in this state, I have pressure map to prove this.

There is only one way to engage the glutes which is through the feet.

My question is if you believe that when your feet are in the dorsiflexed state, you can still use glutes, can you show me how you can perform plyometric exercise with this state?

and I m very curios to hear this, are you able to replicate what I have shown on the video? on demonstration #1[/quote]

Ummm, yes I can perform plyometric exercises in a dorsiflexed position. Can I jump as high as if I can plantarflex my ankles and utilize my calves to assist in the motion? No, of course not, but that has nothing to do with Glute activation.

And yes I can do what you are demoing in your video.

#24

[quote]56x11 wrote:

[quote]Elastin wrote:

see here http://www.secret-of-athleticism.com/pressure-map-data/

[/quote]

Elastin, is this your website?

I went to the home page and it stated the following:

"Define: Athleticism (in my book)

It is NOT the ability to learn and excel at any sport quickly.
It is NOT hand and eye coordination.
It is NOT the ability to win at any sport.
It IS the ability to jump, land, run, turn and break safely, quickly and optimally with Gluteus Maximus(GM) engaged.
It IS the ability to ENGAGE the Gluteus Maximus(GM)"

I do not disagree regarding the importance of the glute max. (I also happen to believe the glute med/min also play key roles but that’s not what I want to get into.)

What I would like clarification on is the statement that athleticism “is NOT hand and eye coordination.”

I have to take exception to this.

Take hitting a baseball thrown by a Major League pitcher, for example. I believe this is the single most difficult act in all of sports. Even if other legitimate strength and conditioning coaches may disagree with me, I suspect they will at least agree that it is at least one of the most difficult acts in all of sports.

I’ll state the obvious here. Hand/eye coordination plays a tremendous role in batting.

Michael Jordan, by all expert accounts one of the greatest basketball players of all time, had no issue engaging his glute max with his jumps that seemed to defy gravity.

Yet he was nothing short of embarrassing when he attempted to become a Major League baseball player.

This is just one example. There are others in which proprioception takes on a significant role.

It is my professional opinion that, although the engagement of the glutes are important, is NOT the only piece in the puzzle.

Now, I did not purchase the book on the website. However, since you brought up the url, I can only deduce that this website (and the book) is yours OR you are very knowledgeable with the contents of the book.

If this is the case, is it your position that the ability to properly engage the gluteus maximus is the ONLY key to athletic performance?

Being a very good - or even an exceptional athlete - is a complex process.

Being able to lift significant weight without injury is a complex process.

Now, with perfect practice both of the above can and should be done in a near effortless manner. This takes repetition after repetition of perfect practice.

What I’m trying to say is I’m not comfortable with a paradigm that distills the solution to just the glute max.

[/quote]

I think you are right in your own light, but as I define my athleticism in my book. it’s strictly the ability to consciously engage the glutes.

#25

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]replacement wrote:
A little confused about the warnings against dorsiflexion… Seems like dorsiflexion is the standard for pretty much all Olympic squatters. Furthermore, lack of ankle mobility is even specifically highlighted by Robertson, Cressey, etc as an issue squatters should address.

Thoughts? Sento?[/quote]

Yeah, pretty much what you said. Olympic lifters are also among this best jumpers as a population.

Power lifters do sometimes seek to minimize ROM (so that they can move the most weight possible) and maximize the hip movement during squatting by using a wide stance, a low bar position, and primarily moving at the hips. This is fine if you want to powerlift, but hardly the only correct way to squat nor the only way to squat that activates the glutes.

The Gluteus Maximus is primarily a hip extensor (which makes them therefore active during both Oly and PL squatting styles) and hip extension has nothing to do with ankle dorsiflexion. The Gluteus Medius on the other hand is a hip Abductor and hip rotator and is the muscle most likely not activated correctly if someone’s knees are collapsing inwards during squats.[/quote]

Thanks for the detailed answer. You get a chance to check out my videos yet? I have a feeling I am not really nailing the core tightness part of it yet.

I have been working on abdominal bracing vs concentrating on arching – got that mostly from stuart mcgill and mike robertson.

It feels like if I just concentrate on bracing, I end up in lumbar flexion (but with flexed abs!). I am guessing I am not really getting the full bracing part right. Do you think about arching, bracing, both?

And thank you in advance for your help… A lot of the concepts make perfect sense in written word but are a little trickier to perfect
in practice.

#26

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]Elastin wrote:

dorsiflexion is the ability to move your toe towards your shin, when the ankle between your foot and shin is less than 90 degree, this is
in a dorsiflexion state. You cannot possibly engage your glutes in this state, I have pressure map to prove this.

There is only one way to engage the glutes which is through the feet.

My question is if you believe that when your feet are in the dorsiflexed state, you can still use glutes, can you show me how you can perform plyometric exercise with this state?

and I m very curios to hear this, are you able to replicate what I have shown on the video? on demonstration #1[/quote]

Ummm, yes I can perform plyometric exercises in a dorsiflexed position. Can I jump as high as if I can plantarflex my ankles and utilize my calves to assist in the motion? No, of course not, but that has nothing to do with Glute activation.

And yes I can do what you are demoing in your video.[/quote]

Sento, could you please post a video of you replicating my technique? what doesn’t add up is if you can get into this state, and you don’t feel glutes activation at all? this bothers me.

#27

Sento, could you please also post a video of you doing plyometric with dorsiflex foot? (less than 90 degree between your feet and shin) I don’t think this is bio mechanically sound and i don’t think you can “bounce” off the ground .

#28

[quote]Elastin wrote:

[quote]56x11 wrote:

[quote]Elastin wrote:

see here http://www.secret-of-athleticism.com/pressure-map-data/

[/quote]

Elastin, is this your website?

I went to the home page and it stated the following:

"Define: Athleticism (in my book)

It is NOT the ability to learn and excel at any sport quickly.
It is NOT hand and eye coordination.
It is NOT the ability to win at any sport.
It IS the ability to jump, land, run, turn and break safely, quickly and optimally with Gluteus Maximus(GM) engaged.
It IS the ability to ENGAGE the Gluteus Maximus(GM)"

I do not disagree regarding the importance of the glute max. (I also happen to believe the glute med/min also play key roles but that’s not what I want to get into.)

What I would like clarification on is the statement that athleticism “is NOT hand and eye coordination.”

I have to take exception to this.

Take hitting a baseball thrown by a Major League pitcher, for example. I believe this is the single most difficult act in all of sports. Even if other legitimate strength and conditioning coaches may disagree with me, I suspect they will at least agree that it is at least one of the most difficult acts in all of sports.

I’ll state the obvious here. Hand/eye coordination plays a tremendous role in batting.

Michael Jordan, by all expert accounts one of the greatest basketball players of all time, had no issue engaging his glute max with his jumps that seemed to defy gravity.

Yet he was nothing short of embarrassing when he attempted to become a Major League baseball player.

This is just one example. There are others in which proprioception takes on a significant role.

It is my professional opinion that, although the engagement of the glutes are important, is NOT the only piece in the puzzle.

Now, I did not purchase the book on the website. However, since you brought up the url, I can only deduce that this website (and the book) is yours OR you are very knowledgeable with the contents of the book.

If this is the case, is it your position that the ability to properly engage the gluteus maximus is the ONLY key to athletic performance?

Being a very good - or even an exceptional athlete - is a complex process.

Being able to lift significant weight without injury is a complex process.

Now, with perfect practice both of the above can and should be done in a near effortless manner. This takes repetition after repetition of perfect practice.

What I’m trying to say is I’m not comfortable with a paradigm that distills the solution to just the glute max.

[/quote]

I think you are right in your own light, but as I define my athleticism in my book. it’s strictly the ability to consciously engage the glutes.
[/quote]

Ah, then I was correct; it is your website and book.

I suggest writing an article describing your paradigm and submitting to T-Nation. This, in all honesty, will give you the best bang for your buck in terms of exposure.

People like me post here because we enjoy helping people for its own sake and we have the formal training as well as real-world experience. It’s unfortunate that I don’t have time to address every single issue on this forum.

Will posting here put a Bentley in my driveway…? Hell, posting here won’t even put new handle bar tape on my road bike. As stated, I take comfort in helping people (when I can) and, to be blunt, I also enjoy giving my thoughts on some of the frauds out there in the strength and conditioning industry. If these fools vomit misinformation such as EVERYone must barbell over head press or it doesn’t matter when you eat your carbs…well, they clearly have chosen to play the role of jester in their theater of the absurd. And I will not lose sleep pointing them out.

Bottom line: if you want to use T-Nation to sell as many of your books as possible, definitely consider writing an article AND be well prepared to defend your stance.

Should you do this, be warned. You will face a mix of: 1) the naive who believe everything they read just because it’s a T-Nation article (laughable but unfortunately true); 2) the dogmatic trolls who disagree just for its own sake; 3) and the sophisticated (as well as somewhat jaded) minority who will make their own intelligent judgements.

I do wish you well on this endeavor. It is no small effort in writing a book that stands the test of time. If, by chance, your book sits next to my copies of works by the likes of Verkhoshansky, I can tell people we once engaged in some interesting debate.

#29

the thing about olympic lifter and jumping for height is that, sure they have no problem jumping high but can they be athletic like the super athletes, Lebron James/Michael Jordan, they are known for brute strength but lacking correct mechanics. Even the best gold medal olympic lifters suffer countless injuries. Do you want seriously go through that? no, What I am trying to show is that there is a right way to avoid all of these unnecessary injury by consciously engaging the glutes before you start squatting because when you stand, you are in the neutral state your glutes is not engaged(see pressure map of the feet). following the form alone will not engage your glutes unless if you are genetically predisposed to use the glutes like most africans.

There is a difference between subconsciously engaging the glutes through movement and consciously engaging it. my method is the latter.

again, I stand by my research excessive “forced” dorsiflexion state relaxes the glutes and uses the quad for the given movement(this can be easily proved by use of tactile pressure map). my work is very new but I m sure the true science will prevail in the end. with that said, I want to see your videos.

#30

Elastin, you are very enterprising as shown by your website and book, but I don’t think you are seeing the whole picture. You observe that when you contract your glutes, the feet have the tendency to plantarflex. This is one of the body’s synergies. People on this site are more familiar with it as “triple extension”. The glutes, quads, and plantarflexors all fire to keep the leg stiff. There is also a flexion synergy, where flexing the hip also tends to produce flexion in the knee and dorsiflexion in the ankle as well.

The synergy is a tendency, not a rule. The glutes can be contracted independently of the plantarflexors, and vice versa. You can’t always look at the feet and know what the glutes are doing.

It is good that you are trying to research muscle activation patterns on your own, but it would be preferable to use EMG data and measure the muscle activation directly, rather than try to guess what is going on from pressure patterns on a force plate. Pressure on the balls of your feet may just be your particular style of squatting and not evidence of a general rule that the feet plantarflex when the glutes are activated. Powerlifters tend to put pressure on their midfoot when squatting and they are definitely activating their glutes.

As far as the box jump videos, keep your ankle in a stiff plantarflexed position will give you more bounce than a stiff dorsiflexed position just because the Achilles is already stretched in the dorsiflexed position, but that doesn’t mean you don’t get a stretch reflex when the foot is dorsiflexed. It doesn’t matter if the muscle is in a long or short position; as long as there is tension in the muscle, you can get the stretch reflex by rapidly stretching it.

Lastly, you indicate on your website that ankle injuries are caused by ankles that are not in a stiff, plantarflexed position (which you presume to be because the glutes are not firing). Actually, the most common ankle injury, the inversion sprain, is caused by excessive force applied to a planted, plantarflexed ankle. If the foot was floppy, the ankle would just invert and there wouldn’t be any damage since that is within the normal range of motion (try it-keep your ankle floppy and roll it around on the floor and see how much range of motion you get without pain). It is because the ankle is stiff that the inversion sprain occurs. The muscles lock the ankle from moving but an outside force forces it to move, which causes the injury.

A dorsiflexed ankle is actually less likely to be sprained since when the ankle is dorsiflexed the joint is in a close packed position.

#31

[quote]Elastin wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]Elastin wrote:

dorsiflexion is the ability to move your toe towards your shin, when the ankle between your foot and shin is less than 90 degree, this is
in a dorsiflexion state. You cannot possibly engage your glutes in this state, I have pressure map to prove this.

There is only one way to engage the glutes which is through the feet.

My question is if you believe that when your feet are in the dorsiflexed state, you can still use glutes, can you show me how you can perform plyometric exercise with this state?

and I m very curios to hear this, are you able to replicate what I have shown on the video? on demonstration #1[/quote]

Ummm, yes I can perform plyometric exercises in a dorsiflexed position. Can I jump as high as if I can plantarflex my ankles and utilize my calves to assist in the motion? No, of course not, but that has nothing to do with Glute activation.

And yes I can do what you are demoing in your video.[/quote]

Sento, could you please post a video of you replicating my technique? what doesn’t add up is if you can get into this state, and you don’t feel glutes activation at all? this bothers me.
[/quote]

Who said that I don’t feel Glute activation? I can activate my glutes regardless of dorsiflexion/plantar flexion, that is all I was stating.

Again, your understanding of biomechanics seems off to me. The glute maximus extends the hip, therefore maximally activating them prior to squatting would mean that there would be no hip flexion (and consequently no squat) as the glutes would be holding the hips in extension. The Glute Medius and Minimus on the other hand Abducts and rotates the hip, which helps to stabilize the knee and prevent it from caving inwards. It’s the Glute Medius and Minimus which the OP needs to activate if his knees are caving inwards/his arches are collapsing/feet pronating.

Your stipulation that the Glutes cannot activate correctly if the ankles Dorsiflex past 90 degrees would mean that any type of squat where the shin did not remain perfectly parallel to the ground would not activate the glutes. Again, if you have the hip mobility to go very wide stance/Sumo stance, use a low bar rack position and a very hip hinge dominat squatting pattern (which also entails a very forward angled torso/greater shearing forces on the spine), or have some very rare femur to lower leg proportions, while squatting, then I agree that this can be a legitimate method of squatting and will recruit the Glute Maximus very well.

But, good luck hitting anything below parallel, which would require the flexibility to perform a full side split/pancake stretch more or less, utilizing those mechanics. And even then it’s a moot point as EMG studies have shown that the bottom portion of an ATG squat (where the hip is in a maximally hip flexed position) heavily activates the Glutes (for the same reason that a hip hinge dominant squatting pattern does as well, because they both involve hip flexion and extension and the Glute Max extends the hip). And you’d better believe that, unless you’ve got some crazy proportions, your ankles will be dorsiflexed at a greater than 90 degree angle at the bottom of an ATG squat.

#32

[quote]Elastin wrote:
the thing about olympic lifter and jumping for height is that, sure they have no problem jumping high but can they be athletic like the super athletes, Lebron James/Michael Jordan, they are known for brute strength but lacking correct mechanics. Even the best gold medal olympic lifters suffer countless injuries. Do you want seriously go through that? no, What I am trying to show is that there is a right way to avoid all of these unnecessary injury by consciously engaging the glutes before you start squatting because when you stand, you are in the neutral state your glutes is not engaged(see pressure map of the feet). following the form alone will not engage your glutes unless if you are genetically predisposed to use the glutes like most africans.

There is a difference between subconsciously engaging the glutes through movement and consciously engaging it. my method is the latter.

again, I stand by my research excessive “forced” dorsiflexion state relaxes the glutes and uses the quad for the given movement(this can be easily proved by use of tactile pressure map). my work is very new but I m sure the true science will prevail in the end. with that said, I want to see your videos.[/quote]

Lol, now I’m sure you’re a troll or selling something.

Olympic athletes as a population are extremely explosive and generally score high in terms of vertical leap, long jump, and 40 yard dash times (all events which heavily recruit the Glutes). It’s also laughable that you think one would be able to Clean or Snatch multiple times one’s bodyweight without strong Glutes (or poor biomechanics). That statement wreaks of hyperbole.

Also, comparing them as a population to a few of the greatest basketball players of all time is silly. Basketball players (professionals included) routinely suffer sprained/strained ankles and knee injuries, so your assertion makes no sense anyhow.

#33

After checking out your video, all I’d recommend is have LESS of an arch in your back. I’m not saying you need to be “round,” but in more of a neutral position akin to the natural curve of the spine. Think more about bracing with your abs than “keeping your chest up.” The exaggerated extension you are trying to keep is probably why you heard that pop on the way down (especially since it was with a weight that you were handling easily).

Secondly–ignore Elastin–accepting squatting advice from skinny punks, or any male that can squat less than 405 would be a mistake on your part. Glutes are, indeed, important, but so is ankle dorsiflexion if you are going to get below parallel without sitting on a box.

Third - keep up the squatting! I will always encourage someone willing to get under the bar and work.

#34

[quote]replacement wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]replacement wrote:
A little confused about the warnings against dorsiflexion… Seems like dorsiflexion is the standard for pretty much all Olympic squatters. Furthermore, lack of ankle mobility is even specifically highlighted by Robertson, Cressey, etc as an issue squatters should address.

Thoughts? Sento?[/quote]

Yeah, pretty much what you said. Olympic lifters are also among this best jumpers as a population.

Power lifters do sometimes seek to minimize ROM (so that they can move the most weight possible) and maximize the hip movement during squatting by using a wide stance, a low bar position, and primarily moving at the hips. This is fine if you want to powerlift, but hardly the only correct way to squat nor the only way to squat that activates the glutes.

The Gluteus Maximus is primarily a hip extensor (which makes them therefore active during both Oly and PL squatting styles) and hip extension has nothing to do with ankle dorsiflexion. The Gluteus Medius on the other hand is a hip Abductor and hip rotator and is the muscle most likely not activated correctly if someone’s knees are collapsing inwards during squats.[/quote]

Thanks for the detailed answer. You get a chance to check out my videos yet? I have a feeling I am not really nailing the core tightness part of it yet.

I have been working on abdominal bracing vs concentrating on arching – got that mostly from stuart mcgill and mike robertson.

It feels like if I just concentrate on bracing, I end up in lumbar flexion (but with flexed abs!). I am guessing I am not really getting the full bracing part right. Do you think about arching, bracing, both?

And thank you in advance for your help… A lot of the concepts make perfect sense in written word but are a little trickier to perfect
in practice.[/quote]

Hey man, finally got a chance to watch the videos.

Honestly from that angle your form looks pretty good and it’s pretty difficult to say whether your knees are collapsing inwards (though they don’t look like they are from what I can tell).

In regards to bracing, one of the most useful tools that I have found for learning how to do this is to use a weight belt. Yes, a weight belt. What you want to do is to put the belt on, but not tighten it to the point where it is restricting your breathing, nor to the point where it feels like it alone is adding any type of stability to your core. Then what you want to do is to actually push out against the inside of the belt with your core muscles (in other words you want to “brace” out against the belt with your core). It sounds weird in print, but if you try it you’ll (hopefully) find that it’s fairly simple to do in practice. Tate has talked about this at times (pretty sure I got the idea from him and sure enough it worked well) and about the misconception that at belt is supposed to be synched really tight to create core stability.

Also, if lower back injuries is a primary concern (which it may be in light of your current injury), you may want to adopt a more upright squatting posture (more Olympic style and less Powerlifting style) as this will place less shearing force on the spine. You may even want to transition to front squatting instead of back squatting depending on your individual biomechanics.

Good luck.

#35

[quote]l-bomb10 wrote:
After checking out your video, all I’d recommend is have LESS of an arch in your back. I’m not saying you need to be “round,” but in more of a neutral position akin to the natural curve of the spine. Think more about bracing with your abs than “keeping your chest up.” The exaggerated extension you are trying to keep is probably why you heard that pop on the way down (especially since it was with a weight that you were handling easily).

Secondly–ignore Elastin–accepting squatting advice from skinny punks, or any male that can squat less than 405 would be a mistake on your part. Glutes are, indeed, important, but so is ankle dorsiflexion if you are going to get below parallel without sitting on a box.

Third - keep up the squatting! I will always encourage someone willing to get under the bar to keep up the work.[/quote]

Agreed.

#36

I don’t mind you disagree with what I m trying to say, but seriously, lifting more than 405 makes you expert? so if a guy weights 300 and lift 405 he is an expert? what about a skinny guy who is 150 and lift 300? your statement is absurd. you should ignore me.

Maybe I am a troll, so what? My research result is controversial, I don’t expect to come here and change everyone’s view overnight. but I will never stop demonstrating to people what I believe is the truth.

#37

[quote]Elastin wrote:
I don’t mind you disagree with what I m trying to say, but seriously, lifting more than 405 makes you expert? so if a guy weights 300 and lift 405 he is an expert? what about a skinny guy who is 150 and lift 300? your statement is absurd. you should ignore me.

Maybe I am a troll, so what? My research result is controversial, I don’t expect to come here and change everyone’s view overnight. but I will never stop demonstrating to people what I believe is the truth.

[/quote]

The point in advising that people not listen to those who cannot squat at least 405 (which I agree is an arbitrary number and depending on body size and goals may not be all that impressive or could be world class) is that someone who has not themselves actually achieved an impressive level of strength (or at least trained others who have) will be speaking only from a theoretical standpoint and not from actual experience. In some cases their theoretical method may even be correct, but there isn’t any actual flesh and blood evidence to support it. In instances where there are no experiential examples to draw from, then theoretical methods will have to be tested and then either verified or disproven, but since there are quite a few tried and true training methods to develop strength in the squat (including strength in the glutes) that have been tested and proven effective by countless strength athletes and recreational lifters available for free on the Internet, it would be kind of crazy to ignore them in favor of a purely theoretical approach like yours.

But get yourself (or a bunch of your clients if you’ve got crappy genetics) to the point where you are actually hitting world class squatting numbers in Powerlifting, Olympic lifting, or Strongman squatting competitions and I’m sure that people will take notice and start to adopt your theories.

#38

If olympic weight lifters are so awesome like you state, why don’t they just transition to more money paying sports like soccer, football, running, basketball? just because someone can lift a lot of weight through years of training, it doesn’t mean that person knows the correct mechanics of running, jumping and playing basketball. I think you are talking about the mechanics of lifting weights. which I have no argument there.

I have interviewed chinese olympic gold medalists for weight lifting in many weight divisions, and I want to dispel some myths.
a) they suffer injuries more than you think. lower back, knee, etc…
b) a lot of them are lifting through pain at lifting meets.

Are they expert at biomechanics? from what you are saying lifting more weights automatically make you an expert. I disagree.

#39

Michael Jordan could not explain how to get vertical, and what makes him more accurate in his basketball shot, because he subconsciously knows let’s say “biomechanics information x” but how does a person with less favorable genetics learn this “biomechanics information x”?

That is why i say there are athletes that can subconsciously engage their glutes, but my method is to consciously engage the glutes for those people with less favorable genetics.

you have got ppl that do squat, automatically they can engage their glutes, and you have got ppl that when they squat,all they feel is quad. I am trying to help those people that are less “gifted”. while all the experts in the sports performance industry teach the form, and stress on form, what I am saying is form is not the ONLY thing.

#40

[quote]Elastin wrote:
If olympic weight lifters are so awesome like you state, why don’t they just transition to more money paying sports like soccer, football, running, basketball? just because someone can lift a lot of weight through years of training, it doesn’t mean that person knows the correct mechanics of running, jumping and playing basketball. I think you are talking about the mechanics of lifting weights. which I have no argument there.
[/quote]

What the heck are you even talking about? Now we are comparing the ability to sprint fast, jump for long distances, jump high, and lift heavy weight (all activities which are highly Glute Max intensive) with the skill required to play basketball at a professional level? Lol at that red herring.

First of all, basketball and Oly lifting favor entirely different body types. Elite Oly lifters tend to be shorter, stockier, heavier boned fast twitch athletes, while pro basketball favors tall, long limbed, more endurance (maybe strength endurance if we’re talking about post players) individuals. Neither type of athlete would be able to compete at the elite level of the other’s chosen sport.

Does that mean that they are both unathletic? No, they are both athletic and may both have strong/powerful glutes. It just means that their body types are not ideal for the other’s sport and they lack the sport specific skills in the other’s sport.

Olympic lifters suffer from injuries at the elite level? Tell me something I don’t know. Name one sport, any, which is physically intensive (crap like skeet shooting or archery doesn’t count in this case) where there are no injuries. Your argument is bunk.

[quote]
Are they expert at biomechanics? from what you are saying lifting more weights automatically make you an expert. I disagree.[/quote]

In the biomechanics of their individual sport they are experts (certainly more than you or I). In the biomechanics of other unrelated sports or activities, no probably not.