T Nation

Squat/Deadlift Gear


I just have a few questions about the various gear out there. I know a little bit about the more popular stuff, but I am having a real hard time finding any info on some of the word of mouth stuff.

First off, I am an all raw lifter (so far). I have just recently started training with a guy who has been powerlifting for about 38 years, and goes to Nationals and World's every year.
He has had me try a few old bench shirts and an old suit, and says that I have "very good instincts" for equipment. He had me put on a 7 year old RageX that has been worn by who knows how many guys over the years, and my first time trying it, I was able to get 100lbs carryover.

My question is about the Squat and Deadlift stuff, though.
My trainer has told me to get a Ricky Crain Genesis suit (double ply) and a Ricky Crain Genesis Trainer (double ply briefs). I ordered the stuff a couple of weeks ago, and it still hasn't gotten here, so I have not had a chance to try it yet.
I have looked everywhere on the net, though, and can find very little info on any of RDC's stuff.
If anyone can tell me anything about it, it would be much appreciated.

I also came across a Metal Pro Squatter for a killer price, so I am going to get that. This is one that i have read a lot of good stuff about, but nobody will mention what type of carryover they get out of it.
I know that the "carryover" thing is touchy for a lot of people. I know there is no guaranteed carryover, that there are a ton of factors, etc. I am not the type of guy that is going to start whining if I don't get the exact carryover someone mentioned, though. That is not what I am about. I am just curious, for arguments sake, what is a low end, high end, or average carryover for the Metal Pro Squatter? Or the Crain Genesis? Or any suit, really.

I don't know if this helps, but as far as my raw squatting goes:
500x3 ATG
Very weak in the whole. If I have something to stop me at the bottom, my squat power goes up A LOT. I can do an all raw 700lbs box squat. Lock out power is very strong. I have done all raw "half squat's/squat lockouts" with 800lbs for a double. So supporting the weight, walking it out, moving it, etc isn't really a problem, it's just trying to stop it at the bottom where I am weak.

As far as deadlift goes, the only suit I have ever tried was a maxDL and I got nothing out of it except bruises. I expect that nobody gets much out of deadlift suits?

I have never used a squat suit, knee wraps, etc. I don't even use a "real belt" when I squat or pull, just a neoprene belt with velcro strap.

Any info on the RDC stuff would be killer, since I can't find it ANYWHERE else. Of course, I would also appreciate any feedback on any type of gear as far as what I should look into, what i should avoid, what i can expect, etc.

Thanks in advance.


I get about 50 pounds out of knee wraps, about 175 out of wraps and briefs (predator), and about 300 out of the wraps, briefs and double ply Metal suit; so I guess I get 125 out of just the suit? As for the RDC stuff, I have never seen the suit or shirt, but a training partner has RDC squat shoes that he is very happy with. Everything we have ever ordered from RDC (we bought a deadlift bar from there I believe) took a long time to come in, but was of very good quality.


I have RDC briefs. Not the Genesis. They are great to train in. Very comfortable, stretchy, I get maybe 20lbs. But the hips feel sooo much better. I also have a pair of legless (Crain again, I think) which I'm not sure I get anything out of, but it just feels much better in the hole.

I'm lifting raw now, but I may put the legless briefs on, I think they'd help.


Good to know. I have heard a lot of good things about predator briefs. I am trying to decide if I should get the predators or the Metal Ace briefs, since they both have been described as "unreal" and people say they hit new PR's with just either of those briefs alone. Of course, I won't be getting either any time soon, this gear stuff is taxing my wallet, lol.
My trainer has the RDC shoes, and says I also need those. I guess that was another thing I was curious about. Shoes? I mean, will I really see or feel enough of a difference that I should spend 125+ on just "special squatting shoes"? Right now I just wear my pumas.


Well, if it helps the hips, than I am stoked. Trying to squat with this new wide stance (I always used to squat olympic style, but am now being told to go wide) is really making me feel like I am weak in the hips at the bottom. Not very secure at all.


Shoes : Chuck Taylors

A lot of the crain stuff sucks. Well, all of it I have used. It is good for hip support so you don't get as beat up from raw, but thats about it.

For a first suit, I would suggest the Titan Super Centurion. For 175 bucks I can almost promise you that you would get more carryover from this suit than from your RDC 2-ply suit and 2-ply briefs....

Preds are okay. I don't like them that much. Too stretchy and I am weak in the hole. I need something stiffer.

ACE are great for me, as are boss. BOSS is thinner so there is less bunching up in the hips with full gear.

If RDC will give refunds, I would send that stuff back, and get a Super Centurion, and maybe some centurion briefs...
If you get them from ken anderson you can get both for 225 bucks total... and you will have them in less than a week. I was getting almost 300lbs from this all single ply combo...


Yeah, I was considering calling Ricky Crain and asking him to just not send the stuff, and refund my money, both because of the better gear available, and because it was supposed to be here a week ago, and when I called him to ask about the stuff, he couldn't even guarantee that it had been sent out yet.
300 lbs carryover out of single ply stuff is insane! I have never even SEEN titan gear up close, let alone use it, but from what I have been reading, they are really stepping their game up and becoming the brand to wear, especially if you want single ply.
Now I have to figure out what to say to Ricky. That guy has a hot fuse. I asked him the difference between wide stance and narrow stance (politely too) and he went off on me about how "all that is is a bunch of bullshit, I know more than anyone else about making suits, I have been doing it the longest" and then that trailed on into bad mouthing other brands, their quality, etc.
So I can't imagine how he will react when I say I want my money back.


I have a Titan Centurion suit it rocks. My little bro has a Metal Viking suit. By far the Titan is a better suit. I also own some Metal pro briefs. My carryover in just briefs as the Titan suit with straps. The Single ply shit WILL bite the fuck out of your hips and shit. The 2 ply does not, at least for me anyways.

I have a Metal ACE suit. It is by far a bad mother fucker. Makes my PRO briefs feel like they don't even freakin work...NO SHIT. STOPS ME DEAD in the hole AND gives shit tons of "pop".

With the weights you are using raw, I'd go with the ACE stuff.


I was curious to know which was better, the regular pro or the ace. That is why i hate all the websites that sell the gear, according to them, every single piece of equipment they sell is the very best in the world. Which makes it very hard to just cut through the bullshit and decide what you need.

I just hate throwing money at a problem. I literally can't afford it. I would like to get one or two suits, like one mainly for training, and one for comp. I couldn't honestly care less about a bench shirt. I know they add to the total and all, I just hate the way they feel.
I would like to just figure out which are the three top best suits (like narrow it down to the Leviathan, Boss, Ace, etc) and then keep my eye out for a well priced one.
One thing is for sure, what I ever I end up with, I will probably keep for way longer than I should. I don't have the type of income that can afford a new suit every time I want to try something different, or getting a new suit every couple meets because they wear out, etc.

If the Ace is the way to go, though, then I guess I have a good suit in mind. Would you also recommend the Ace briefs over the predators?

The reason i was considering a Metal Pro and not the ace is just because I was on Powerlifting watch and saw someone selling a metal pro squatter in my size for 100 bucks (new). Figured I couldn't pass on the deal.


Oh, I did see a Metal Ace on ebay, but I think it may be a little too big. I have heard that the Metal Pro needs to be pretty tight to work, and I have heard that something like a Leviathan or Boss does not need to be tight to work. What about the Metal Ace? Should it be tight, or can you get away with a little play? How much would the size of the suit you need change once you factor in wearing briefs under it?


Ace gear is fantastic, I use Ace briefs and suit. The briefs are quite tight, the suit by itself is reasonably tight, but together they are almost tight enough to cut off circulation. I get about 200lb out of the briefs and 300lb out of the combo, but you have to push back hard against them on the descent. If you were going to get one piece of equipment, I'd go with Ace briefs. You can always wear a singlet over them or a loose suit in a meet. Even when they are tight, they don't bite in any one spot like some of the single-ply Titan stuff does, it's just all-around snug. But you can go with a looser pair and still get a lot of support. If you're short (under 5'10"), the legs in an Ace suit may be a little too long. I'm 5'8" and had to have them shortened 2".

I also own Pro briefs and suit, and they are nice equipment, but basically Ace-lite. Used the Pro suit over Ace briefs for awhile with good results.


For $100 you'd be a fool to NOT get it dude.

Maybe hit Jo Jordan up at Elite Fts about sizing and then go from there. I can tell you this. For the PRO BRIEFS measure your pelvis around. ( With a tape measure start at your junk and go around the widest part of your ass)that's the size you need. If you ar an odd number, round up to the next even number. Me, I measured 43" pelvis around & My quads 1/2 way down my legs are 26", i got a 44 brief. Fits perfect, hasn't stretched much. In fact I've had them for over a year and I still have to put them on cold or else it's a hard, almost impossible fight to get them on.

My ACE suit is a size 50. To get the legs seated the last little bit - COLD - I have to loop the straps on a bar and hang from them. After that it's squatting awesomeness. The ACE has adjustable straps so on the sizing chart the torso length is not important. What is important in a suit is the way it fits in the hips and legs.

Hope this helps man.


Well it sound like we are very close to the same size. My thigh at the half way point is about 26.5, and my hips measure 42.
I have decided to get the pro suit for 100. I also saw that Ace suit on ebay for 75, but its a size 52, which I think would be too big, but I wasn't sure how it would fit if I was wearing briefs under it. Plus, don't know how tight the ace needs to be compared to the pro.

Right now, I can hit a raw total of about 1550-1600. From what I read, according to the WPC/APF, I need a 1875 total to be "elite". So I need to get a total of about 300lbs carryover out of all my gear from all my lifts total.

Not sure where you guys compete, but just in case I might see any of you, me and my trainer are still deciding on weather we want to do the APF Nationals in May, or the APC Nationals in June. His goal for me is to take me to nationals and get me to qualify for Worlds this year. I know he has a good record, apparently every single person he has ever trained and taken to nationals has won their class their very first time there, and made it to world. And I think all but maybe one of them has also won their first Worlds.
Oh, if it helps, my trainer is Rocky Tilson. I don't know if you guys are familiar with him. He grew up training with Jim McCarty, Earnie Frantz, etc. He has also trained a lot of Athletes, I think the most famous of which was Ron Palmer (Ron Palmer is actually who got me into powerlifting when I was 16, I trained with him and practically lived with him for close to a year).

Anyway, I hope i can get all this gear stuff situated and figured out. I just want the most bang for the buck.


Cool! I and a training partner will be at APF Nationals in May. Look forward to meeting you if you go, and good luck at whichever meet you choose.


The APF Nationals is in Dallas this year, right? I was born is Texas, so it would be cool to go back. What class do you lift in?


Masters 242


My ACE (size 50) is tight as shit in the legs. There's NO WAY I could wear briefs under them. The size 52 would be PERFECT for wearing with briefs. HA, I'm helping you spend all your money huh?


Oh God Damnit, I just now sent the lady the money for the Metal pro! lol
Oh well, I hate ebay, who knows what the price will be by the time the aution ends.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're going straight from raw to multiply gear? Correctly fitting single ply gear is hard enough to get used to. I purchased a metal ace pro bench shirt 6 months ago and was recently able to touch with 700 (keep in mind my single ply is in the mid 650's).

As far as RDC's gear goes, I would personally stay away. From what I've seen in meets there is little carryover compared to other brands, plus the bench shirts are a bitch to get on and off.

Single ply I have been more than pleased with my Super Katana and Super Centurion.


They all need to fit right to work right.

HOW tight is key. If you get a leviathan TOO tight you won't fucking move in it.

Single ply- Titan gear... super centurion, centurion is good too, but super centurion is awesome

Multi-ply- First suit an Overkill poly suit and briefs may be good. If I had it to do over I would have went straight to canvas. Ginny's has them cheap and high quality. Overkill makes a good one. Leviathan is the gold standard, but overkill isn't out there much yet so it may be better... very few have used both.

I had an ACE suit... if your legs are big it will suck.

For briefs in multi-ply I like BOSS or ACE. I had preds. They are too weak.