T Nation

Squat and Milk...W/O 20 Reps

[quote]elliotnewman1 wrote:

(We are the only animals on the planet to drink the milk of another animal)[/quote]

I love this argument, I am pretty sure the last time I spilled a glass of milk my dog licked it off the floor, ever try giving milk to a cat? They love it.

If animals knew how to cultivate milk they would drink it.

Just because animals do or don’t do something dosn’t make it good or bad, there is plenty of stuff animals eat I would never touch.

[quote]KO421 wrote:
If you have lagging legs it is a real good routine[/quote]

Fortunately, I do not. I have 26.5" legs, 14.5" arms, and a 31.5" waist. I’m definately leg-heavy.

Milk has been known to cause prostate cancer for a few reasons, the main one being too much calcium.

I have a good friend who makes furniture for us, works all day…tells me he used to drink a gallon of milk a day, the guy also had to have his prostate taken out because of prostate cancer.

Too close for me. I keep milk consumption low. Even organic.

http://www.drmirkin.com/men/8334.html

It seems the problem isn’t milk itself, but a vitamin D deficiency. I see no reason why a UV lamp and a good dosing of vitamin D every morning wouldn’t eliminate this threat.

Thanks for the info though, I’m going to put it to good use.

[quote]RJ24 wrote:
It seems the problem isn’t milk itself, but a vitamin D deficiency. I see no reason why a UV lamp and a good dosing of vitamin D every morning wouldn’t eliminate this threat.

Thanks for the info though, I’m going to put it to good use.[/quote]

Dude if you put as much effort into moving some heavy iron around as you are musing over all this shit in this thread, you’d be well on your way.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Dude if you put as much effort into moving some heavy iron around as you are musing over all this shit in this thread, you’d be well on your way.[/quote]

I agree.

I did the 20 reps this winter and my legs blew up. I’ll vouch for them being the hardest and (in regards to their specific purpose: bigger legs) the most effective.

Give them a shot and see how it goes. Like you said, the TUT of 20 rep squats releases a huge anabolic hormonal response. Give your upper body muscles enough stimulation and immense growth will translate all over your body, not just your legs.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
RJ24 wrote:
It seems the problem isn’t milk itself, but a vitamin D deficiency. I see no reason why a UV lamp and a good dosing of vitamin D every morning wouldn’t eliminate this threat.

Thanks for the info though, I’m going to put it to good use.

Dude if you put as much effort into moving some heavy iron around as you are musing over all this shit in this thread, you’d be well on your way.[/quote]

Why is it that you assume I’m not lifting heavy. How does this look to you?

Looks pretty damn heavy to me, especially since it was at the tail end of only doing front squats for a month.

Trust me, my training is in check, though whether or not it is has nothing to do with this thread. As I said, I’ve already put on 35 lbs, so I’ve done my time under some relatively heavy weight. Thanks for your reply.

[quote]RJ24 wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
whatever the case, MY BELIEF is that 20 reps of an exercise where the body is supporting a heavy weight is going to increase your hormones tremendously which will further support your body adding lean body mass.

That’s just it though, the weights used for 20 rep anythings aren’t “heavy.” I’m fairly certain the hormonal changes would be similar between 20 reps @ 60% and 3-4 reps @ 90%.

And KO421, how much weight did you gain, and from what weight to what weight? I ask because I’m currently taking in around 4500 calories per day and my weight isn’t budging. I’m a lean 202 @ just under 6’1" as of this morning
[/quote]

Maybe this is not true for this particular program, but if its anything like the old school 20 rep squats, it was not no 60% of your max weight. Something more like 75-80. Put the weight on your back and squat non-stop, when it starts to burn you take a few more seconds to do each rep. The legs can take a lot more work then what most people do with the cute 5x5’s which everybody seems to be doing nowadays, but only the advanced trainees seem to be getting anything out of.

Airtruth, I personally would not use the 20 rep program because I’m very fast twitch. For me, 5-6 reps is high rep training. If I were to try 20 rep squats, which I have in the past, I would be using around 60-65% of my 1RM. For me, that is where my 10RM is at.

This is why I’ve gotten “big” on singles. I grow with basically any training, I’m just not able to eat enough right now to support that growth. I figured milk would fulfill my calorie requirements and help me out in this aspect.

I did a 20-rep squat program but I couldn’t come close to affording to drink a gallon of milk a day.In Louisiana it’s like over $3 for a gallon of whole milk.Without the gallon a day I still gained nearly 20 pounds quickly without the big increase in bodyfat.I was still drinking alot of milk though.Just attempt the workout.Your body might actually respong better to it if it’s not used to such high reps.

[quote]MAS50 wrote:
I did a 20-rep squat program but I couldn’t come close to affording to drink a gallon of milk a day.In Louisiana it’s like over $3 for a gallon of whole milk.Without the gallon a day I still gained nearly 20 pounds quickly without the big increase in bodyfat.I was still drinking alot of milk though.Just attempt the workout.Your body might actually respong better to it if it’s not used to such high reps.[/quote]

… You cant afford a gallon of milk per day? Seriously? Pick up a second job and work 4 hours a WEEK and you could cover that. How much beer and other stuff are you buying that you dont need that could EASILY go to buying muscle fuel?

3 dollars a day is absolutely chump change, considering you could live off of it pretty much. Ask you mom for an extra 20 a week and go buy some damn milk.

[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
Calories = Weight gain. A gallon of whole milk is 16 cups of milk. 16 x 150 = 2400 calories of milk a day. This is half your diet right here.

Muscle growth = training intensity, frequency and rest. I don’t see where 20 rep squats fit into the equation. You could drink a gallon of milk, and intensely train with any program and you should gain.

[/quote]

Truth. This should be “Strong Words” for the next 3 months.

I hate reading “That program put on 10 pounds in 2 months”… Well, the program might have made some of that weight muscle, but it had nothing to do with the WEIGHT gain.

[quote]Malevolence wrote:
elliotnewman1 wrote:
I did a 20 rep squat program ages ago and found it to be highly effective. Worked up to 225lbs for 20reps over 8 weeks. That set was the hardest i have ever done in the gym. My thighs definitely grew well.

The part of the 20 rep squats and milk program i would actually be questioning is the milk part. There’s a lot of literature out there saying that cows milk is basically very unhealthy for humans, and a gallon a day is a lot of milk. Just a thought.

(We are the only animals on the planet to drink the milk of another animal)

Raw milk or organic whole milk is usually fine for anyone. Most of the problems people get from drinking milk come from drinking crap milk.

The fact that we are the only animal on the planet to drink milk of another animal is a pretty irrelevant point. It’s not like milk is the only thing we ingest that comes from another animal.

[/quote]

If you read the book Eat Right For Your Type you will find 3 of the 4 blood types do not tolerate milk well, including type O which is the most common blood type.

Charles Poliquin has stated that he follows the principles of Eat Right For Your Type.

When i cut milk out of my diet i noticed immediate improvement, particularly in my skin and energy levels.

Why don’t you just do the 20 rep squat at the same intensity as your singles or your 3-5 reps? I think that doing your 10rm and then doing 10 extra reps that you normally shouldn’t do would be a much more intense process for you than doing exactly the same thing you’ve been doing on a regular basis for the past few months or so. If you don’t find it intense, I suggest adding more weight until you do.

[quote]sean_mur88 wrote:

RJ24 wrote:
In my mind, I see my current plan, teamed with the gallon of milk, bringing similar results to the SS program. There’s not nearly as much TUT, but my lifts are done at a much higher intensity.

Why don’t you just do the 20 rep squat at the same intensity as your singles or your 3-5 reps? I think that doing your 10rm and then doing 10 extra reps that you normally shouldn’t do would be a much more intense process for you than doing exactly the same thing you’ve been doing on a regular basis for the past few months or so. If you don’t find it intense, I suggest adding more weight until you do.
[/quote]

Intensity is a percentage of 1RM, not a feeling or attitude you put into your work sets. No matter how you slice it, 60% will always be less intense than 90%.

[quote]RJ24 wrote:
sean_mur88 wrote:

RJ24 wrote:
In my mind, I see my current plan, teamed with the gallon of milk, bringing similar results to the SS program. There’s not nearly as much TUT, but my lifts are done at a much higher intensity.

Why don’t you just do the 20 rep squat at the same intensity as your singles or your 3-5 reps? I think that doing your 10rm and then doing 10 extra reps that you normally shouldn’t do would be a much more intense process for you than doing exactly the same thing you’ve been doing on a regular basis for the past few months or so. If you don’t find it intense, I suggest adding more weight until you do.

Intensity is a percentage of 1RM, not a feeling or attitude you put into your work sets. No matter how you slice it, 60% will always be less intense than 90%. [/quote]

The point is to put as much intensity and force into a set at 60% as you would at 90%, this is called speed work and will up your totals

[quote]KO421 wrote:
RJ24 wrote:
sean_mur88 wrote:

RJ24 wrote:
In my mind, I see my current plan, teamed with the gallon of milk, bringing similar results to the SS program. There’s not nearly as much TUT, but my lifts are done at a much higher intensity.

Why don’t you just do the 20 rep squat at the same intensity as your singles or your 3-5 reps? I think that doing your 10rm and then doing 10 extra reps that you normally shouldn’t do would be a much more intense process for you than doing exactly the same thing you’ve been doing on a regular basis for the past few months or so. If you don’t find it intense, I suggest adding more weight until you do.

Intensity is a percentage of 1RM, not a feeling or attitude you put into your work sets. No matter how you slice it, 60% will always be less intense than 90%.

The point is to put as much intensity and force into a set at 60% as you would at 90%, this is called speed work and will up your totals[/quote]

Non-ballistic speed work, such as you are recommending with 60% loading, is far from a productive way to train, unless powerlifting is your thing.

Not only that, but during 20 rep squats, wouldn’t you be glad to just get the bar up for another rep, let alone blast it up?

The only way for 60% loading to be as intense as 90% would be to perform drop and catch movements in which you blew through the ammortization phase instantaneously.

The intramuscular tension generated by an exercise such as this would certainly be much more intense than during a lift @ 90%, though the duration of the stimulis would be more brief.

Intensity and intensiveness often get confused and interchanged.

I think intensiveness, the amount of EFFORT you put into your sets, along with special techniques(drop sets, supersets, 21’s…) are much more important for muscular growth than simply lifting a percentage of 1RM.

The bottom line for EVERYTHING is results. If you are gaining lbm with whatever you are doing at a reasonable rate, continue until it stopd working, then reformulate.

[quote]RJ24 wrote:
Intensity is a percentage of 1RM, not a feeling or attitude you put into your work sets. No matter how you slice it, 60% will always be less intense than 90%. [/quote]

You must be out of your mind with this one. Intensity is much more than a percentage. It is a feeling, a calling, and the reason some of us walk into the gym. My intensity will never be measured by a percentage of a 1RM lift.

Perhaps those who think this way should try some real intensity and see what happens to their numbers…

[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
Intensity is much more than a percentage. It is a feeling, a calling, and the reason some of us walk into the gym. My intensity will never be measured by a percentage of a 1RM lift. [/quote]

Settle down Rambo.

The generally accepted definiton of intensity in sports science is in relation to % of 1RM.

Why do people automatically assume anybody who discussing science in any sort of way can’t be working hard? Do you know anything about this guy and the results he’s achieved?