Sprinters Maximum Strength

[quote]jtbike2000 wrote:
top speed will come with a short ground contact time both vertically and horizontally along with a faster turnover. I believe that plymetrics are of greater help with this, and thus top speed, than heavy lifting. “The best plyo drills for top speed are vertical in nature” says Charlie Francis, who i strongly agree with. using plyos and trying to minimize ground contact time should help with top speed. Yes weight can, and probably will help with top speed a little, they will help with acceleration the most - which is also incredibly important even in the 400. As Clyde Hart says that you should be at top speed 50m into the race, this is a key point and better acceleration will help this.

On top of this, however, i find it very hard to believe that you are reaching you top speed i na 400m race and that is limiting you. normally in a 100m sprint the runner is alowing down at the end and to say that you can maintain that same top speed for 350m is amazing in itself and you probably wouldnt be on a website trying to get help because your times would be world class already.[/quote]

Indeed.

Stop speed for most people is in the 50-60m and the 10m splits are slower after they hit peak.

I think the fastest ever 10m split was actuallythe 40-50m actually. But we’re not all freaks.

No way you’d hit top speed and finish in a good time. You’d be TOTALLY DESTROYED.

What are your current lifts and stats? I posted a list earlier and you didn’t answer.

Koing

How tall are you? 6’0
Whats your bw? 162
PC? never done it heavy, but 40kg is pretty easy
VJ? it was roughly 24" last summer, but dont test this often
Squat? 100kg for 6
DL? not done one for ages
Pull ups? 14 full range

60: never done one. 100: 11.8 200: 23.8 400: 52.4

I’m not saying I would hit absolute max speed in a 400, just that I think having a higher max would let me run more within my self for a given 400. I thought stride frequency was pretty hard to improve, whereas there are large gains to be made in stride length.

[quote]el0gic wrote:
How tall are you? 6’0
Whats your bw? 162
PC? never done it heavy, but 40kg is pretty easy
VJ? it was roughly 24" last summer, but dont test this often
Squat? 100kg for 6
DL? not done one for ages
Pull ups? 14 full range

60: never done one. 100: 11.8 200: 23.8 400: 52.4

I’m not saying I would hit absolute max speed in a 400, just that I think having a higher max would let me run more within my self for a given 400. I thought stride frequency was pretty hard to improve, whereas there are large gains to be made in stride length.[/quote]

I think you are on the right track, so to speak. Improving your max. speed(both velocity and acceleration) can have very positive effects upon your 400m performances. If, for example, you had a goal of 50.0, I think you would have to improve your performances in the shorter distances or at least in outputs during training.

Improving your max speed can(as I believe you posted earlier) can create a higher speed reserve so you can can run at the same percentage of speed(sub-max) but be no more spent at 200m and so on than you were when your speed capacities were at a lower level.

Too many people, in my opinion, treat the 400 as a middle distance event which can work if you are already incredibly quick over shorter distances. For less talented(slower)
sprinters, it’s not nearly as effective.

Part of your training year should be devoted to the development of both acceleration and max. velocity in the absence of speed endurance and special endurance work.

The eventual quality of performances in both special and speed endurance are both heavily dependent upon the max. capacities over shorter distances. Too much of this type of work(speed end. and special end.) too early on before the speed abilities are at least nearly developed, will limit the potential for that season. Don’t worry about speed endurance so much until you have developed high levels of speed.

With regards to strength work for the 400 guy, though I don’t believe it is of the same level of need as it is for the 100/200 guys it is still very much needed.

I agree with some of what has already been posted that the way to develop max velocity occurs primarily on the track. Still, if one perfects the ability to accelerate(or at least improve) the improved efficiency might lead to less energy expenditure during acceleration and possibly higher max. speeds.

You should devote part of your yearly schedule to some max strength work in the absence of too many other simultaneous physical demands since too much stress of the adaptive resources can limit your gains in any one area.

Yeah, I think you might need a little more power if you are running those times and only have a 24" vertical. It seems like your genetic ability leans toward speed endurance if your 100 is 11.8 and your 400 is 52.4.

Your squat could use a little work too, although you are 6’, so 100 kg for 6 is actually a little stronger than it seems.

However, unless you feel that your quads are really your limiting factor, I’d probably focus more on posterior chain strength, using deadlifts, goodmornings, and natural glute-ham raises to improve glute strength and hamstring stiffness.

Make sure you are sprinting about once a week during your strength blocks so you don’t lose your running form.

Get the vj to over 30" in next 6 months and shorter distance speed work, working on making the 100M time drop to under 11.5.

Focus on imroving “power”.

The 200 and 400 times will improve with spseed and power improvement.

[quote]JoeMorello wrote:

You should devote part of your yearly schedule to some max strength work in the absence of too many other simultaneous physical demands since too much stress of the adaptive resources can limit your gains in any one area. [/quote]

Good post. What would a week look like for this period of the year?

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
JoeMorello wrote:

You should devote part of your yearly schedule to some max strength work in the absence of too many other simultaneous physical demands since too much stress of the adaptive resources can limit your gains in any one area.

Good post. What would a week look like for this period of the year?
[/quote]
By this period of the year do you mean now or for such a period as the one I described during the training year? I’m guessing the latter.

The guy has enough 100M and 200M speed for a 48.5-50.0 400M.

My personal opinion is improving his power would make it alot easier to achieve the goal. Why I said to build 100M as well as possible.

[quote]djrobins wrote:
Get the vj to over 30" in next 6 months and shorter distance speed work, working on making the 100M time drop to under 11.5.

The 200 and 400 times will improve with spseed and power improvement.

The guy has enough 100M and 200M speed for a 48.5-50.0 400M.
[/quote]

  • Don’t worry about your vert…

  • I wouldn’t really get too hung up on 100m times, but instead work on your top speed by doing stuff like flying 30’s. The 100m is a very technical race that you don’t need to worry about as a 400m runner.

  • I am not quite sure why you think someone who runs 11.8 and 23.8 for the 100 and 200 has the potential of 48.5-50.0.

  • From your times it sounds like you need to focus on your top speed. It sounds like you are in great shape for the 400m though, so don’t lose that.

  • Running a 52 second 400m is really good at 16 and you could probably be sub 50 by the time you graduate high school.

[quote]el0gic wrote:
How tall are you? 6’0
Whats your bw? 162
PC? never done it heavy, but 40kg is pretty easy
VJ? it was roughly 24" last summer, but dont test this often
Squat? 100kg for 6
DL? not done one for ages
Pull ups? 14 full range

60: never done one. 100: 11.8 200: 23.8 400: 52.4

I’m not saying I would hit absolute max speed in a 400, just that I think having a higher max would let me run more within my self for a given 400. I thought stride frequency was pretty hard to improve, whereas there are large gains to be made in stride length.[/quote]

Looking at your 200 p.r. as a predictor for your 400 time you could use a simple equation to illustrate why you need to improve your basic speed and use some max strength work to help achieve such gains. Certainly it’s not a concrete, absolute predictor but in my experience, it is fairly accurate.

2 x your best 200 time of 23.8= 47.6 + 3.5 = 51.1 (2 x 200 p.r. + 3.5 seconds). That comes pretty close if you are well trained for the 400 and if based upon an accurate 200m p.r.

Therefore you could say that is LIKELY that the best you could hope to run off your 200 time(if you have run it often enough to make it a solid, fairly accurate p.r.) is 51.1.

BTW, not that you are comparing yourself to Jeremy Wariner but his best 200 of 20.19 x 2= 40.38 + 3.5=43.88 though his actual 400 p.r. is 43.62. It’s my belief that his 200 speed is actually, long term a bit better than this since he has not really run many as a pro-though he runs one in the next week or so against an incredible field.

Certainly, the equation for JW is not dead on but it’s not bad. That said, some other guys 200’s (using that equation) like Merritt, X. Carter, Spearmon indicate that their potential for the 400m is far faster(based upon 200 times) than anything they have put up at that distance thus far but there is a lot of season and career left for all of these guys.

For inspiration: this guy can do 46.56 with no legs.
http://www.southafrica.info/what_happening/sports/oscar-pistorius-190407.htm

You cant have top speed without acceleration. Max strength weights help both acceleration and top speed.

Both acceleration and top speed are very important for 400m athletes per se but especially when creating speed reserve which increases speed/special endurance.

[quote]JoeMorello wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
JoeMorello wrote:

You should devote part of your yearly schedule to some max strength work in the absence of too many other simultaneous physical demands since too much stress of the adaptive resources can limit your gains in any one area.

Good post. What would a week look like for this period of the year?

By this period of the year do you mean now or for such a period as the one I described during the training year? I’m guessing the latter.

[/quote]

The latter.

Interesting article about the sprinter with no lower legs.

I think it shows how important calf stiffness and the Achilles tendon is in sprinting.

On the 2x + 3.5 formula…

I know more than one person who run around 11.8 for the 100M and get under 51 seconds for the 400M…

Some people can hold it harder.

Kreal7.

Much of the plyometric work is vertical in nature, why I listed it as “vert”.

I still say the vert is over 30" for any sprinter, especially a 162LB one.

It seems people with weak vert, do have stronger carry over to speed when its improved.

The 24" vert is indicator of poor leg power, or CNS loading, etc. For this guy to get his 6" will take under 6 months at this level thru combination of plyo/squat progrgression. He will gain 4" in 3 months just going after it. I believe like Airtruth does that once he finds his legs are “stronger”, and popping off 32" or greater on the VJ that he WILL be faster and the 400 will improve.

In the 1 year timeframe, it is real realistic for this guy to already be at 48.x seconds for the 400M, at 11.25 or so for the 100M and sub 23 for the 200M.

Focus on routines that yield results. Theres many during these years that do not, but there are things that always did give results and we were out there not paying attention

[quote]djrobins wrote:
Kreal7.

Much of the plyometric work is vertical in nature, why I listed it as “vert”.

I still say the vert is over 30" for any sprinter, especially a 162LB one.

It seems people with weak vert, do have stronger carry over to speed when its improved.[/quote]

Why so obsessed with vert? He’s a sprinter. He should be obsessed with speed. There are many world-class sprinters who I can jump higher than, but I’m positive I can’t crack 13 seconds in the 100m. Depending on his body type, plyometrics may be useful, but sprinting is the most plyometric activity of all and ground-contact times are much shorter than they are during plyos.

Well what has the poster decided on? otherwise jtrinsic and dj are just arguing for their health.

Personally I think he needs to improve his max strength also. I wouldn’t take time off track to do it, just add it in or do it in the morning. Just remember when your doing it for about the first month all of your times will be slower until your legs adjust. This is only because you have no strength currently. You probably won’t reach your max strength for a 400 for about a year or so.

Max vertical has some but little transfer to 400 speed.

If your doing 14 Pull-ups you definitely need to be squatting and deadlifting. That means your upperbody is stronger proportionately then your lowerbody in a sport that requires predominantly leg strength.

Although if your going the length of the track doing lunges and stuff your squats and deadlifts shouldn’t be too low.

Kreal7,

I’m 19, not 16. The reason for my ‘really good for a 16 year old’ times is that I only actually started running 2.5 years ago - doing cross country. I started training for 400m in october 2006 after 3 months of nothing from injury, and even then it wasn’t very intensive. In all the 400 training I have done so far, the shortest rep was 60m, and I probably only did that session twice.

From my times I can see that my top speed is lacking, so need to develop this. I’ll spend the summer doing pure speed training, then increase the conditioning in september, then hit the weights again when I get back to uni in october.

To augment my max speed, it seems (as well as training max speed) I need to train max strength. The question is, can I start doing this straight away, or do I need to build a base of general strength in connective tissues first?

Jtrinsey,

I agree that full out sprinting is the most plyometric activity. But what body type(s) do you think other plyos would be useful for?

How does said sprinter create loading HIGHER than he can naturally so he can adapt to it?

PLYOS’ and not sprinting. Vertical plyos.

It does not take much additional time, and it actually does work, especially for slower people.