T Nation

Sports Performance


#1

I have a question. Most of the dosages we talk about here are for muscle hypertrophy, typically in a bodybuilding sense. BUT, what about for performance in explosive sports. Say football or boxing? I am assuming a dosing and drug regimen would vary completely. I don't think football players or boxers wanna be on a gram of test while playing do they? ( mainly because of the cardio aspect/ increased blood pressure).

I am guessing drugs like EQ, Winny, Anavar, and Tren are preferred, but does anyone have an example of a cycle an explosive sports athelete would use? I am asuming his performance is only improved when "ON". The best things I can think of would be Ephedrine, Halostein, or cheque drops. What do you guys got for me.

** I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE OFF-SEASON FOR GAINING MUSCLE EITHER. STRICTLY FOR PERFORMANCE**


#2

Lats, the drugs you listed seem to raise blood pressure as well. Besides, being an althelete with good diet will help to decrease blood pressure. My blood pressure is 120/80 (not an athelete), with being on 1g test, 50mg dbol/day, 75mg tren/day, 75mg eq/day. Athelets are going to want to use anything that will make them stronger, and depending on weight class issues, things that they may not gain to much weight on. I would imagine atheletes would lean towards test, tren, winny (depending on joint problems) halo, test suspension and probably many others.


#3

You know, T-mag should really address this issue, maybe talk to an expert on the subject and then write an article called "Anabolc Street Part II" or something and put it in this weeks online issue.

Sheesh.


#4

hahahaha, haha DAM Horse! I didn't even see the new fuckin issue. I just come str8 to this forum to talk to all my juicebag homies as soon as I can, I totally forget this is a website with other things on it.


#5

Yeah Lats there is going to be some future articles coming about athletes and their cycles.

In season recovery is a big issue with the day to day grind of sports and maintaining strength.


#6

Ahh something near and dear to my heart.
I 'help' some footballers, college and pro, baseball, hockey, mtn climbers, sprinters, bobsledders, power lifters but my real favorite is UFC/Pride fighters and I have worked with them a lot.
I can say that in season or pre-fight EQ/Var/Halo/some test and now some masteron are preferred. GH is popular and even deca at times but only for joint relief purposes.
I will be experimenting with bolasterone and have seen good results with turinabol in a 400 meter runner. Some like winny if they don't get joint pain from it. Footballers are the same but at sometimes during the year they just take a bodybuilding type protocol to gain weight. This is more of the line guys.
I can say the biggest difference with what athletes do vs. bb's is dose. The max I have an athlete do when he has to perform is 600mg/week total dose. I usually max it there as it seems like strength gains at 600mg are similar to gains at 1000mg, only 1000mg causes more weight gain which is usually not wanted. I have fighters who only take 300mg/week and do well with this.
One fighter just did 300mg/week EQ with 20mg/day anavar and really kept bodyweight down while getting strong and improving endurance. The main thing with training is that you have to watch volume. Steroids don't help CNS recovery as much as they do metabolic recovery. Much of their training is CNS intensive and don't forget practice, which for football/fighting can be VERY demanding.
Tren isn't loved by a lot of fighters/athletes. I know some may disagree but I'm talking about just my experience. The effect on BP does seem to cause endurance issues where as EQ is loved because it's boost to RBC count makes the athletes feel like they can go longer. Which brings me to my last point. I think a lot more weight is given to how the athlete feels on the drug. In BB maybe someone will say I feel like shit but I'm gaining and be okay with it. In fighting, they want to feel good and get the best performance possible. So if a drug causes too much lethargy that's no good.
I can go on and on as I have a lot of specific protocols athletes from different sports have liked.


#7

Oh and I forgot to mention Ephedrine. Typically, lets take fighting as an example, I don't recommend this. I like the powerdrive type supplements. 2-3 servings of powerdrive and on game/fight day maybe adding 200mg caffeine to this as long as the athlete doesn't use caffeine in his daily life.

Ephedrine doesn't seem to help with strength/cardio over the course of a fight. Personally I like a lighter edge and have used albuterol/salmeterol inhalers with better results.

Another thing in some cases actually is a little phosphate loading for lactic acid buffering and amino loading with BCAA's.. In leiu of high carb post workout drinks when guys are trying to actually lose a little weight and stay as strong as possible up to the weigh in I like BCAA/Amino tabs post workout. These are the type of things BB's and people on boards bash a lot but for athletes peaking for some major competition I like them.


#8

SCRAPPY!! TELL ME MORE!!!

Yo, I kickbox and train at the same place Phil Baroni trained. I love The UFC/Pride. hahah thats why I asked. I want to get fuckin huge, then just work on fighting from that size.

I figured EQ and anavar for NHB fighting. That low of dosages huh. That sounds pretty awesome. How do they cycle it? How long is a cycle? What do they use when they come off? Is it the same as Bodybuilders? Do you have any other example cycles?

Yeah, I know the Polymetrics KILL the CNS. What do you suggest for QUICK CNS recovery? How do you go about preventing CNS overtraining? Do the guys use Ephedrine?

Any info regarding fighters is super fuckin welcome. I wanna gain the muscilar size of say Arnold, Then change my training to focus mainly on fucking people up.

Who do you like in teh UFC/Pride right now? You want Belfort or Catour this weekend?

Thanks bro. Keep the info coming.


#9

Scrappy that's some real interesting stuff you brought up.
I Box and do Vale Tudo and was interested to see how you'd prepare for a fight. You mentioned Halo as well, what sort of dosing regime would you use going up to a fight and does it really make you that aggressive? (Have heard good things about Test. Suspension as well).
Although you didn't mention it some say that methyltestosterone can be used in the same way as Halo to increase aggression.


#10

Baroni huh? hmmm... maybe my friends fight your friends HAHAHA...I don't want to mention names on here hehehe...
Okay, your questions about cycles and doses... The first thing is obviously weight training and steroids do not make you a great athlete or fighter. I almost approach this like I just want to take enough to help recovery and maintain strength while making weight. I'm not a fan of juicing up to get into a higher weight class. Why? Well a natural big guy has big hands and a big head and this can matter when it comes time to trade punches. You make look like a ferrari but when that big lumbering dough boy connects with his fat paws he just may catch you off gaurd. Something to think about.
Okay, I train fighting too so when I give a plan I usually tailor it to the guy. What are his strengths/weaknesses in the ring. What opportunities does he have to defeat his opponent. What opportunities does he have to be defeated? If there is no up coming fight then try to get explosive with your training. CT and Westside and some fight specific exercises will be good for this. At this point I don't mind gaining weight and you can do whatever cycle you are comfortable with. I like 300mg test/300mg EQ maybe with var.
As the fight approaches it's time to realize your strengths and weaknesses and establish a plan. Many of these fights are KO's right away or they go the distance. So you better be able to go the distance. That's why I like lower doses. I have so much to say and I'm just babbline but one thing you have to do is test yourself. Set up a fight simulation where you tax the energy system involved in the specific fight. Pride is 1 10min round followed by 1 or 2 5min rounds. UFC is 3 5 mins or 5, 5 min rounds for a title... There are a host of conditioning exercises you can use to go 5 min and take 1 min rest to simulate this. It can be bag work, sled dragging, sandbags, tire flips... mix it up. Strong man stuff is good and so is sprinting.
Plyos are good but use them wisely and sparingly... read CT and west side, charlie francis too...apply their ideas to fighting. As far as becoming arnold then kicking peoples asses I just don't think you should do this. Tito Ortiz is a great fighter...one of the reasons he was so good is he dieted down and came in the ring WAY heavier than many of his opponents. When your bigger, it doesn't mean you'll win, but it does help. I call this stuffing the weight class. Say you're 215, you wanna fight at 199... trust me.. it lets you make more mistakes and when you get tagged by some guy who walks around at 240 but weighed in at 220 you'll know the difference from the guy who bulked up to make the 199 in the light heavy... Does this make sense?

Creed... I haven't got my hands on methyl cause i'm happy with what I've been using.
quick example of prefight.
50mg each of masteron/test/eq shot 3 times/week. 20mg var/day
last 1-2 weeks 15mg halo/day
I've found halo does make people aggressive. Suspension is good maybe the day of the fight but test this first. Some like it. some don't. NEVER do something new the day of an event. I don't care if it's 200mg caffiene, or a new submission hold you want to have tested it out.
You MUST simulate the fight day, even the car ride to the place and time everything right. If you mess up, you don't look bad to judges, you get punched in the face, which sucks.
But remember there is not cookie cutter program... what makes the athlete FIGHT BEST. Ask yourself this before you train, eat, use drugs, whatever. Will this make me a better fighter?
Make sure you get some bread and butter fight techniques and strategies. Randy Couture is very basic to watch. But he wins. Watch as many fights as possible.
what did the winner and loser do? Disconnect emotion. turn the sound off so you can't hear the announcers and just watch the fighters.
Vitor can be a great fighter but I see inconsistencies with his performances which makes me think he has training inconsitencies or maybe even some emotional inconsistencies. Randy is very consistent. If both guys come in at their potential best I really like vitor's hands. However, I see Randy knowing his enemy and being able to beat him. Tough call though.. I have to find out from some friends how each has been doing in training and then I can say... I'm psyched for hughs/penn too....


#11

Scrappy.......amazing. I thank you for the great post. Don't be surprised if I have any other NHB training questions in the future.

1 Who is westside or CT?

2 Do you know of any great NHB training routine books?

3 You didn't really touch that much on CNS recovery. Any info on this is appreciated.

4 Good summary on vitor and catour....we will soon see

5 Matt hughes is amazing

6.............I know who your friendS are....hahahahahha.

thanks again bro


#12

interesting thread.
You guys would be surprised how in the dark some MMA fans are about the use of steroids.
They refuse to believe their heroes are "cheaters". LOL!
I dont know anything about steroids and sports performance but I do know this.
Vitor will lose. Randy will take him down repeatedly and pound the shit out of him until the ref stops it or he wins a one sided decision.
Penn is in trouble too.


#13

Hey Lats2,
About CNS recovery. This is why I hate epehdrine and long term caffeine use. They are very taxing to the adrenals and the cns if abused. CNS stuff I like is powerdrive. I've not noticed much from hydergine/nootropil to be honest.
Check out the last Q/A here with john berardi. Good stuff on all types of recovery. http://www.t-mag.com/articles/155app.html

Remember Basics... What is good for CNS recovery? Good consistent SLEEP... I think this is why GH is loved by so many athletes. It promotes good sleep, among other things.
Penn's only shot at hughs is to choke him. I'm interested to see just how much bigger hughs is then penn. If BJ prepares right he has the potential to win.


#14

Oh and Dave Tate and Louie Simmons are the Westside guys...If you don't know about them you may want to look around this site. Also CT is Chritian Thibaudeau. Go to westside's website. Elitefitnesssystems.
And also check out Joe DeFranco, he really knows sports performance and T-mag just started to cover him. I've been to some Poliquin and Staley seminars and gotten good info there too.
I imagine Baroni is a good source of fight training info as well. I find all trainers have something to offer. You just need to realize much of what is said is about hypertrophy which is not always the goal. For just conditioning I've learned from mostly my MMA friends as well as Mike Mahler and John Davies over here. John Berardi and Eric Serrano have good nutrition advice. You have to kind of sift through stuff though. Any time these guys speak it's not that they're wrong, it's just that it may not apply to your goal. Westside has some great strength/speed stuff to offer fighters, however if that's all you did I think you'd be missing out a bit. Lower carb diets can be great for some people, but some fighters really need carbs. Training is just the process of getting to know yourself.
Read t-mag.


#15

As far as the low doses I just want to point out that a lot of these guys were not big time juicers when I met them. Most of them did not want to gain a lot of weight either. If you have been using for a while and need a certain amount just to maintain what you have and notice no impact on endurance by all means do that.

I know Spook has experince here I was hoping he would say what he's done pre-fight.


#16

"Vitor will lose. Randy will take him down repeatedly and pound the shit out of him until the ref stops it or he wins a one sided decision."
I agree, you gotta love anybody with cauliflowered ears!

I like low dosage tren 50mgs a day with a little prop. Just to hold things together. Regardless of what drugs you use for recovery and endurance etc. Training for it is the best solution I've found to hitting the wall.
The more experience you have in there the less adrenaline is flowing and you can relax. In my mind this is key to endurance. I am a freediver as well, I actually had a world record once in spearfishing. I've been known to hold my breath and drop to well over 100ft in search of grouper etc. It took a lot of practice to get to the point where I was relaxed enough to do this.


#17

Scrappy, this thread is one of the best yet, thanks to you ( well, to me it is)

I planned on blowing up scrappy to about 225, and fighting at 205 ( stuffing the class). That makes sense right? Sounds like what you were reffering to before.

.....2days.....


#18

Good advice Spook...

Lats2.. Sounds good...when are you looking at taking your first fight?

Do you compete in just kick boxing, wrestling, jiu jitsu or boxing yet or are you jumping right into the MMA ring?


#19

I competed in bodybuilding as a teen. I Always wanted to have arnolds proportions since i was like 4. BUT I figured out that it is ONLY looks. What good is looking strong, if you are a pussy. Its like have a big bark, but no bite. Thats why i want to grow to like 225 - 235, and fight at 205. I have been in martial arts for years and kickboxing a few too. I sparred with a really experienced kickboxr and he worked me. After a round my muscles were pumped to fuck, because they are use to bodybuilding shit. I have changed that around now.

My favorite story is recently when Dorian Yates got knocked the fuck out by a MMA guy who was like half his size and ALL the bodybuilders didnt even jump in to help....those pussies.

Scrapps, I have been getting really bad shin splints from jump roping and polymetrics, and running. What do you suggest?


#20

Try warming up really really good for the shin splints. Duck hack squats might help in the longer run.
205 is my weight and its exactly what I like to fight at.
Dorian Yates is a pussy. So was Arnold but he's a rich pussy. He played the hell out of the terminator role. And now he's the honcho and if he does alright there probably has a chance at the real honcho position in about 8 years, so he's done alright for himself no matter how you slice it.

I saw him once in Beverly Hills not too long after he hit it big with the first terminator role about 87 or so. I was walking up to a crosswalk and here comes this yo yo on a crimson red fat boy harley wearing a trojan jacket and football helmet with the terminator glasses and a fat stogie.. My buddies and me just look at him...- What the hell??? He just turns, looks at us, pulls the stogie out and says.. "I'll be BAAACK!"
It actually was a pretty cool thing. We were stoked.