T Nation

Sports and PED's

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
No. They should remain banned and the penalties if you’re caught should be as severe as possible.

It’s cheating, plain and simple. And in some sports - namely boxing, MMA, and football - it might lead to severe bodily injury.

An athlete should never feel forced to do steroids in order to keep up with the pack. There will ALWAYS be cheating of some sort going on, but that doesn’t mean the sports should not be kept as clean as humanly possible.

Plus, it sets an awful example for stupid ass high school kids who will no doubt say, “Hey man, Ray Lewis juices and I play middle linebacker, so I may as well juice too.”

It’s a slippery slope.

[/quote]

You think steroids are the most dangerous part about playing football?

If you are going to be keeping our kids safe from the effects of role models, you need to ban the NFL.

I wonder how many kids have been hurt trying to replicate boxers and MMA fightersâ?¦

What if there was an independent ‘pharma’ committee that would monitor each team/sport/fed. For example they would send their doctors to a pro teams/athletes on a regular basis to test, monitor and ultimately prescribe different substances to aid recovery and optimize hormone levels. That way they could establish a more natural limit (i.e. TRT), do it legally and openly, promote responsible use and eliminates the need for ‘drug’ tests, seeing as the athletes would be monitored regularly.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

Plus, it sets an awful example for stupid ass high school kids who will no doubt say, “Hey man, Ray Lewis juices and I play middle linebacker, so I may as well juice too.”

It’s a slippery slope.
[/quote]

laron landry anyone???

I agree though, the suggestion that one needs PED to compete, especially at an elite level, is troubling to say the least. Fortunately there are athletes who are almost definitely clean and vocal about it.

Tyson gay anyone?

To be hones, PEDs don’t harm anyone but the user. To those who say people are forced to take them to “keep up”, that’s bullshit. No one is forcing anyone to keep up. I like having a functioning endocrine system, so I won’t be using steroids. I accept that this gives me 0% chance of being Mr. Olympia, and it’s cool. It’s a choice I (and my genetics) have made.

What really irks me isn’t PEDs as such but the hypocrisy and outright dishonesty that many top-level PED users demonstrate. It’s just so misleading and harmful.

Consider the top bodybuilders and the bullshit they espouse. They come on YouTube or in magazines, and whore themselves out for supplements. They preach routines which are complete horse crap for a natural lifter.

Kids see this and spend hard-earned $$$ on bullshit supplements and waste some of their most anabolic years doing idiotic routines to little results. Should a kid who can’t squat 55 pounds and can’t bench 80 pounds go anywhere near an “EZ CURL” bar? I mean really.

THAT they take PEDs is their own business; that they avoid/skirt/lie about it and sell others a regimen that doesn’t work - THAT is the definition of hypocrisy. At some point they wise up and adjust volume / intensity / recovery time accordingly, but is there any ramification to the original liar who just lied to the kid for a quick buck? NONE.

That’s why I’ll always respect a guy like Mark Bell who came out and admitted point blank that he uses. Or Louie Simmons who will admit without any guilt that he’s been “on” for 28 years in a row.

At least nowadays, there’s a lot less naiveté and even though most pros won’t come out and say they’re using, at least the Internet will.

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
I always laugh when people would cry about fairness when there are teams with pockets deeper than oceans winning championships year after year[/quote]

I always laugh when people complain about owners/teams with deep pockets buying championships, or it being unfair. Should that team with deep pockets just say fuck it, I have all this money, my team brings in bank, but I should sell it to someone that isnt as rich and cant go out and pay for the top athletes? For the most part those teams have owners that are rich, they love the sport, and they want to win and be the best. What is the fucking problem with that? There are exceptions of course, but there are exceptions to every rule.

Yeah, win more, build a bigger fan base and voila, deeper pockets. King of the hill is a natural effect of competition. Knock him off and build your mountain, without cheating.

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
I always laugh when people would cry about fairness when there are teams with pockets deeper than oceans winning championships year after year[/quote]

I always laugh when people complain about owners/teams with deep pockets buying championships, or it being unfair. Should that team with deep pockets just say fuck it, I have all this money, my team brings in bank, but I should sell it to someone that isnt as rich and cant go out and pay for the top athletes? For the most part those teams have owners that are rich, they love the sport, and they want to win and be the best. What is the fucking problem with that? There are exceptions of course, but there are exceptions to every rule.[/quote]

are there exceptions to the rule that says there are exceptions to every rule?

[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
according to Better, Faster, Stronger espn special: 85% of juice users are the typical gym rat while 15% are the “elite athlete” out there getting it done. [/quote]

Mehhh…this is sort of a weird argument.

Just because 85% of people who use steroids aren’t professional athletes, doesn’t mean that only 15% of athletes use steroids.

Put another way, the argument that elite athletes make up a relatively small percentage of the steroid-user base has no bearing on any argument that suggests that a significant percentage of athletes use steroids.

The fact is, there are a lot more gym rats than elite athletes.

[quote]John Romaniello wrote:

[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
according to Better, Faster, Stronger espn special: 85% of juice users are the typical gym rat while 15% are the “elite athlete” out there getting it done. [/quote]

Mehhh…this is sort of a weird argument.

Just because 85% of people who use steroids aren’t professional athletes, doesn’t mean that only 15% of athletes use steroids.

Put another way, the argument that elite athletes make up a relatively small percentage of the steroid-user base has no bearing on any argument that suggests that a significant percentage of athletes use steroids.

The fact is, there are a lot more gym rats than elite athletes.
[/quote]

I don’t think that statement says only 15% of elite athletes use PEDs, but that 15% of PED users are elite athletes. Like you said, though, elite athletes make up less than 15% of the population.

It’s a strange stat anyway. What is their criteria for “elite” anyway? How did they get those numbers?

Like Orion (I think?) said, the “whatever it takes” attitude works in all areas of life, and it’s become a part of our culture. Most people will give you a pass for sacrificing everything for your sport/job/etc. Some even glorify it.

Also, the argument that people shouldn’t be allowed to use PEDs because then other people will need to use them to keep up could just as easily be phrased as some people shouldn’t be allowed to sacrifice family for their sport/job because then other people won’t be allowed to keep up, or some people shouldn’t be allowed to utilize the advantages of their youth because the less well-off won’t be able to keep up etc. We don’t have level playing fields. Life isn’t fair. It’s a personal choice as to where to draw the line and if it’s not worth it to you then you have to be comfortable with that. If it is worth it then you also have to live with the choices you make to put everything else aside.

Open it all up… level across the board.

Bigger, Stronger, Faster* makes a good point. Tiger Woods gets lasik. Better than perfect vision. Yet, this okay?

ALOT of athletes (not all, but ALOT)… are proffesional because of something genetic.

Now, I’m not naive to think it could ever be fair-- but dude that produces 2mg test per day vs someone producing 6mg per day, naturally… I mean c’mon.

Open it up, have it tightly monitored, allow athletes only to take their levels up to highest obtainable, natural ceiling… then maybe a tad bit of things for joints, and overall health(Deca, GH) …prolong their professional career and make one more aspect even across the board… Not to mention a higher level of play.

Dude with glasses owns me… Shit, 300 yrs ago I’d be owning him. It’s evolution of the game in my opinion.

[quote]LessTraveled wrote:
I really don’t give a shit about who does or does not take PED’s. When I was young I really thought about trying them out “just to see” if they worked. I did not do so and today I’m relieved I did not go down for that road. I consider myself a “straight edge” kind of lifter, I don’t use supplements, I rarely even use protein powder although I see nothing wrong with doing so. No creatine, no recovery aids, no T boosters, no fat pills, nothing except hard work, grit, and natural protein filled foods. I even bought a juicer awhile ago and juice different shit everyday. I never got as big as I wanted or as strong as I wanted but Im usually one of the biggest guys at the gym, bigger than the guys who I know spend $300-$500 a month on every “new supplement” that hits the magazines. I hear them talking about their new “stacks” and bottles and I laugh inside as I set up for another all out deadlift set with 455 or so. If these kids would spend more time in the grind and less time looking for that “magic bullet” then they would be me instead of asking me what my “bench is”, or “what do you take”. I have always been interested in the old time strong men from back in the 1880’s and early 1900’s, those guys just busted ass and ate meat and drank milk and attained great size and even more impressive strength. if they could do it without all this new shit on the market then so can I damn it.

To me its not the young guy at the gym who’s all yolked up that impresses me, its the old guy who’s still yolked up after 25 years of honest work and an honest payout. 10 years of glory aint worth the possible chance of fucking yourself up.[/quote]

I’m glad you’re happy about being so hardcore and straight edge and making fun of people who purchase supplements when many of us here were destroying your 455 deadlift numbers before we were 20 years old.

Good job bro.

[quote]LessTraveled wrote:
I really don’t give a shit about who does or does not take PED’s. When I was young I really thought about trying them out “just to see” if they worked. I did not do so and today I’m relieved I did not go down for that road. I consider myself a “straight edge” kind of lifter, I don’t use supplements, I rarely even use protein powder although I see nothing wrong with doing so. No creatine, no recovery aids, no T boosters, no fat pills, nothing except hard work, grit, and natural protein filled foods. I even bought a juicer awhile ago and juice different shit everyday. I never got as big as I wanted or as strong as I wanted but Im usually one of the biggest guys at the gym, bigger than the guys who I know spend $300-$500 a month on every “new supplement” that hits the magazines. I hear them talking about their new “stacks” and bottles and I laugh inside as I set up for another all out deadlift set with 455 or so. If these kids would spend more time in the grind and less time looking for that “magic bullet” then they would be me instead of asking me what my “bench is”, or “what do you take”. I have always been interested in the old time strong men from back in the 1880’s and early 1900’s, those guys just busted ass and ate meat and drank milk and attained great size and even more impressive strength. if they could do it without all this new shit on the market then so can I damn it.

To me its not the young guy at the gym who’s all yolked up that impresses me, its the old guy who’s still yolked up after 25 years of honest work and an honest payout. 10 years of glory aint worth the possible chance of fucking yourself up.[/quote]

If I decided to be like you, I would have to keep my deadlift at the same weight for the next 23 years or however old you are. By the way, most people who act hardcore never are hardcore. I laughed heartily to myself about how psuedo-“alpha dog” this comment was. By the way, how is taking protein supplements not make you straight edge or what have you.

[quote]LessTraveled wrote:
I really don’t give a shit about who does or does not take PED’s. When I was young I really thought about trying them out “just to see” if they worked. I did not do so and today I’m relieved I did not go down for that road. I consider myself a “straight edge” kind of lifter, I don’t use supplements, I rarely even use protein powder although I see nothing wrong with doing so. No creatine, no recovery aids, no T boosters, no fat pills, nothing except hard work, grit, and natural protein filled foods. I even bought a juicer awhile ago and juice different shit everyday. I never got as big as I wanted or as strong as I wanted but Im usually one of the biggest guys at the gym, bigger than the guys who I know spend $300-$500 a month on every “new supplement” that hits the magazines. I hear them talking about their new “stacks” and bottles and I laugh inside as I set up for another all out deadlift set with 455 or so. If these kids would spend more time in the grind and less time looking for that “magic bullet” then they would be me instead of asking me what my “bench is”, or “what do you take”. I have always been interested in the old time strong men from back in the 1880’s and early 1900’s, those guys just busted ass and ate meat and drank milk and attained great size and even more impressive strength. if they could do it without all this new shit on the market then so can I damn it.

To me its not the young guy at the gym who’s all yolked up that impresses me, its the old guy who’s still yolked up after 25 years of honest work and an honest payout. 10 years of glory aint worth the possible chance of fucking yourself up.[/quote]

You are a fucking tool. You are also probably not nearly as physically impressive as you believe yourself to be.

Who gives a shit, people watch athletics to see humans push the boundaries of performance and then cry when they find out the next step in creating super athletes wasn’t just hard work, it was hard work + steroids?

Admit it, the whole stigma attached to athletes using PEDs wouldn’t even exist if it wasn’t for the media fueled smear campaign on steroids for the past 20+ years.

“even playing fields” are a joke when there are so many loopholes for athletes to use. If you really want a even playing field, abolish testing and make sure athletes know and understand that they are going to be competing against enhanced athletes, if they didn’t already.

And come on, how many of you claiming steroid usage is dangerous actually know anything about about steroids? I’d like to see a few of our steroid using members chime in on just how “dangerous” AAS use is in reality. I’m wagering not remotely damaging as some people might like to think it is…

[quote]ranengin wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
… it sets an awful example for stupid ass high school kids who will no doubt say, “Hey man, Ray Lewis juices and I play middle linebacker, so I may as well juice too.”

It’s a slippery slope.

[/quote]

Save the children!

Should we make alcohol and tobacco restrictions for anyone that may be perceived as a roll model?

Slippery slope indeed…[/quote]

i find this funny as fuck

some athlete busting his ass but taking PED’s is some how worse than getting a tv show drinking your ass off, sleeping around, having extremely materialistic views, showing no respect towards society etc

think of things like jersey shore, musicians doing drugs till their organs implode and the list goes on… but i digress
it’s those dirty filthy athlete we need to stop

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
I always laugh when people would cry about fairness when there are teams with pockets deeper than oceans winning championships year after year[/quote]

I always laugh when people complain about owners/teams with deep pockets buying championships, or it being unfair. Should that team with deep pockets just say fuck it, I have all this money, my team brings in bank, but I should sell it to someone that isnt as rich and cant go out and pay for the top athletes? For the most part those teams have owners that are rich, they love the sport, and they want to win and be the best. What is the fucking problem with that? There are exceptions of course, but there are exceptions to every rule.[/quote]

What are you talking about?

I was pointing out how sports will never be equal…some guys use gear…some teams are rich…some coaches have no experience

Nice ramble though I guess

Have you ever forzen a banana with peanut butter on it?

While I find myself rarely agreeing with Fighting Irish (with the exception on some boxing) I agree here.

Here is my take on it. What FI was saying is that a lot of Elite athletes are Role Models and Promoted as such. Now with all the Media bashing of PED’s who gets the short end of the stick when it is found out by the public if an athlete is on? The kids get the wrong message.

Sidenote: During the I think? 1988 Olympics, a question was asked to 100 aspiring Olympians that if they could take a certain PED drug to guarentee a Gold Medal but it would take 10 years off of their life ALL 100 said YES.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
While I find myself rarely agreeing with Fighting Irish (with the exception on some boxing) I agree here.

Here is my take on it. What FI was saying is that a lot of Elite athletes are Role Models and Promoted as such. Now with all the Media bashing of PED’s who gets the short end of the stick when it is found out by the public if an athlete is on? The kids get the wrong message.

Sidenote: During the I think? 1988 Olympics, a question was asked to 100 aspiring Olympians that if they could take a certain PED drug to guarentee a Gold Medal but it would take 10 years off of their life ALL 100 said YES.
[/quote]

There are also athletes who play the bad guy, the guy you love to hate.

If I take your point further, they practically must take roidz just to hammer home the point that steroids are bad, mmmkay?

For the children.