T Nation

Spiritual Liberation

For those interested in Self Actualization, enlightenment, awakening… etc… I found a really great stripped to the core guide of practice, not something that you expect it to be but for those that are not afraid of the unknown its a huge wake up call…

http://www.adyashanti.org/wayofliberation/

So you are enlightened, yes? If you are, why are you apparently interested in the petty pursuit of aesthetics?
If you are not, I don’t understand how you can recommend a guide to enlightenment, since it apparently failed you. If you haven’t actually followed the whole guide, I don’t understand how you can recommend it, since you don’t know if it actually works.

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
So you are enlightened, yes? If you are, why are you apparently interested in the petty pursuit of aesthetics?
If you are not, I don’t understand how you can recommend a guide to enlightenment, since it apparently failed you. If you haven’t actually followed the whole guide, I don’t understand how you can recommend it, since you don’t know if it actually works.[/quote]

<------- hindu

lower the ego and life will be better in almost every way

of course I just barely do that and don’t know many people who do

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
So you are enlightened, yes? If you are, why are you apparently interested in the petty pursuit of aesthetics?
If you are not, I don’t understand how you can recommend a guide to enlightenment, since it apparently failed you. If you haven’t actually followed the whole guide, I don’t understand how you can recommend it, since you don’t know if it actually works.[/quote]

awake yes, enightened no… there is no reason you cannot enjoy the world of form as long as you don’t seek an identity out of it, I don’t work out to feel better about myself or for self image, I do it because I see it kinda like art and I can find alot of peace doing it. Enlightenment does not mean absolute renunciation of all things and live in a cave, thats just misconceptions… Enlightenment means you have no identity, no story, no self, no self image, no separation. I like alot of different things like martial arts, surfing, snowboarding, etc… what does any of that have to do with knowing who you really are beyond form identity.

On a second note why are you so critical, what are you lashing out or defending? Have you read the book? Are you not interested? It doesnt matter to me I am just putting it out for those that want to know.

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:
Enlightenment does not mean absolute renunciation of all things and live in a cave, thats just misconceptions… Enlightenment means you have no identity, no story, no self, no self image, no separation. I like alot of different things like martial arts, surfing, snowboarding, etc… what does any of that have to do with knowing who you really are beyond form identity.
[/quote]

I don’t have anything against you personally, but I think you miss the point entirely. You don’t know what enlightenment is (I don’t either). I leave you a quote by Alan Watts. Maybe you can grasp the reason for my criticism.

“Because if I allow you to leave here this evening, under the impression that you understand something about Zen, you will have missed the point entirely. Because Zen is a way of life, a state of being, that is not possible to embrace in any concept whatsoever, so that any concepts, any ideas, any words that I shall put across to you this evening will have as their object, showing you the limitations of words and of thinking.”

[quote]browndisaster wrote:

lower the ego and life will be better in almost every way
[/quote]

This.

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:
Enlightenment does not mean absolute renunciation of all things and live in a cave, thats just misconceptions… Enlightenment means you have no identity, no story, no self, no self image, no separation. I like alot of different things like martial arts, surfing, snowboarding, etc… what does any of that have to do with knowing who you really are beyond form identity.
[/quote]

I don’t have anything against you personally, but I think you miss the point entirely. You don’t know what enlightenment is (I don’t either). I leave you a quote by Alan Watts. Maybe you can grasp the reason for my criticism.

“Because if I allow you to leave here this evening, under the impression that you understand something about Zen, you will have missed the point entirely. Because Zen is a way of life, a state of being, that is not possible to embrace in any concept whatsoever, so that any concepts, any ideas, any words that I shall put across to you this evening will have as their object, showing you the limitations of words and of thinking.”[/quote]

okay I see what you are saying now, thanks for you’re input man.

Here is the thing though, this book is not like an acquiring of knowledge or anything like that… It is a deconstruction process of breaking down system structure and beliefs, which Is why you really need to read it before you know whats in it… The process of deconstruction of un truth like peeling layers of an onion… Until you are left with the only truth that is ever real… So yes you are absolutely correct! The point of awakening is the removal of any and all conceptualization… It is the no mindness, no thought or personal perception on reality through separated eyes… And of course Alan Watts points to the idea that there is no way that you can ever understand enlightenment through the mind or intellectually, to ego it makes absolute no sense and there is no co opt in the death of ego… Krishnamurti is a pretty ruthless guide on all of this.

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
So you are enlightened, yes? If you are, why are you apparently interested in the petty pursuit of aesthetics?
If you are not, I don’t understand how you can recommend a guide to enlightenment, since it apparently failed you. If you haven’t actually followed the whole guide, I don’t understand how you can recommend it, since you don’t know if it actually works.[/quote]

can’t the pursuit of aesthetics be enlightening?

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
So you are enlightened, yes? If you are, why are you apparently interested in the petty pursuit of aesthetics?
If you are not, I don’t understand how you can recommend a guide to enlightenment, since it apparently failed you. If you haven’t actually followed the whole guide, I don’t understand how you can recommend it, since you don’t know if it actually works.[/quote]

awake yes, enightened no… there is no reason you cannot enjoy the world of form as long as you don’t seek an identity out of it, I don’t work out to feel better about myself or for self image, I do it because I see it kinda like art and I can find alot of peace doing it. Enlightenment does not mean absolute renunciation of all things and live in a cave, thats just misconceptions… Enlightenment means you have no identity, no story, no self, no self image, no separation. I like alot of different things like martial arts, surfing, snowboarding, etc… what does any of that have to do with knowing who you really are beyond form identity.

On a second note why are you so critical, what are you lashing out or defending? Have you read the book? Are you not interested? It doesnt matter to me I am just putting it out for those that want to know. [/quote]

have you ever tried psychedelics? I know a lot of people think it’s a “cheap” way to achieve the ego-less state you were describing but just wondering.

I just can’t subscribe to any system of belief that is predicated upon randomly capitalizing words. I just don’t feel that that sort of thing is True.

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
So you are enlightened, yes? If you are, why are you apparently interested in the petty pursuit of aesthetics?
If you are not, I don’t understand how you can recommend a guide to enlightenment, since it apparently failed you. If you haven’t actually followed the whole guide, I don’t understand how you can recommend it, since you don’t know if it actually works.[/quote]

An enlightened person would not be one to judge the merits of another’s hobbies. In an enlightened state, all things are neither good nor bad and to deem the pursuit of anything as such is in direct conflict this principle. We cannot make such inferences about the the OP’s mental and spiritual state simply because he is posting on a bodybuilding forum.

[quote]digitalairair wrote:

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
So you are enlightened, yes? If you are, why are you apparently interested in the petty pursuit of aesthetics?
If you are not, I don’t understand how you can recommend a guide to enlightenment, since it apparently failed you. If you haven’t actually followed the whole guide, I don’t understand how you can recommend it, since you don’t know if it actually works.[/quote]

awake yes, enightened no… there is no reason you cannot enjoy the world of form as long as you don’t seek an identity out of it, I don’t work out to feel better about myself or for self image, I do it because I see it kinda like art and I can find alot of peace doing it. Enlightenment does not mean absolute renunciation of all things and live in a cave, thats just misconceptions… Enlightenment means you have no identity, no story, no self, no self image, no separation. I like alot of different things like martial arts, surfing, snowboarding, etc… what does any of that have to do with knowing who you really are beyond form identity.

On a second note why are you so critical, what are you lashing out or defending? Have you read the book? Are you not interested? It doesnt matter to me I am just putting it out for those that want to know. [/quote]

have you ever tried psychedelics? I know a lot of people think it’s a “cheap” way to achieve the ego-less state you were describing but just wondering.
[/quote]

No I don’t really want to deal with any potential side effects… I found deconstructing my entire system of beliefs and conditioning to be a good start… Self inquiry, deep mediation of being, sincere self honesty, and integrity, contemplating in stillness, becoming aware of everything as it arises by staying present as the observer… Had a lot of structure breakdown from suffering beforehand as well… Eventually it got to the point where I realized there was no self or seeker, I as in Todd my name, and my story and history, judgements, likes dislikes, etc… Were all made up… Everything I thought to be me was simply the result of conditioning based in the environment I grew up in… My personal and collective conditioning… So i am not the thinker, I am the I am before anything else added then, awareness expirenced right? Anything else is just conforming to conditioning and mental movement patterns of the mind… Enlightenment is not a belief, in fact all good religious teachings are meant to challenge your conditionings and make you aware that you are not your mind… It’s seen plain as day in most every spiritual texts for all religions, the problem is it became a belief system instead of a way to contemplate somewhere along the way… In my own expirence it was leaving everything I knew to be true and walking straight into the unknown, also conpletely ridding all inner divisions until seeing there is no real separation, other then that which we place in our own minds, no duality… with the sole purpose to realize okay, what is it I dont know to be true? Even conceptualization of spirituality just holds you back from self actualization because There in lies another belief to be dispelled… Enlightenment then is something with a negative connotation so that the mind has no image or concept to attach, it is a feeling of actualization not thought then… Like the Buddha said, enlightenment is the end of suffering, but he never said what else there is to it other then what it is not, correct?