Spinup's TRT Log

TRT will FAIL. Your DHEA-S is very low. Your Reverse T3 is already high. Your body has weak adrenal function. If you won’t listen to my advice right now, please remember what I’m saying as you will come back in the near future to listen to me. Stop the TRT. Get a 24 hour Saliva Cortisol test done. Your cortisol is likely very low throughout the day. Have you taken antibiotics in the past? How are your bowel movements? (Soft, mushy, poorly formed?) Stress, trauma, injury, infections (bacteria, parasite, viruses, fungal overgrowth-Candida), etc. or even post antibiotic intestinal dysbiosis all can weaken your adrenal function. You need to have normal cortisol levels or you will make things worse. You will get ED, no libido, fat gain, etc. if you do TRT with weak adrenal function that you don’t solve the root problem and fix it BEFORE TRT. TRT will make everything worse because exogenous hormones suppress both the HPTA and ACTH/cortisol (glucocorticoid) production.

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You are right, my rT3 was elevated, improving my diabetes brought it down and SHBG increased substantially. Dr Saya did say rT3 was elevated do to insulin resistance while my thyroid numbers (TSH 1.01/Free T3 3.6/T4 8.5) were all good.

Agreed here, except not sure about the notion of completely omitting trt… perhaps lower the dosage substantially to that of subclinical hypogonadism, this way the anti catabolic effect won’t be so pronounced (cortisol blunting effect), though 11HSD inhibition mediated by test does decrease cortisol-> cortisone conversion, but the effect is likely cancelled out by a decrease in circulating concentration… at least with a TT of say 400-450ng/dl the guys insulin sensitivity won’t go to shit, muscle mass can be (reasonably) maintained… sort of…

But aren’t you still diabetic? Like… seriously diabetic, bad enough to be clinically diagnosed with type 2 diabeties? Still symptomatic from diabeties… SHBG is still very low… that being said, on the TRT credentials thread you’ve mentioned you’re going to gym… and with that I say, good job dude! It’s the first step in the right direction

I’ve spent several days now thinking about, researching, and otherwise taking your advice as seriously as I can.

You could be right. I may have weakened adrenal function leading to lower cortisol. Maybe. But maybe not, too. And if so, it may be weakened by a systemic feedback loop caused by low/imbalanced sex hormones.

DHEA-S and rT3 could be problematic for other reasons. Reasons that may in fact be resolved by Test Cyp and increased insulin sensitivity. I think the best way to move forward is by initiating TRT, not by postponing for yet another round of testing - this time saliva cortisol - at the cost of another $100 or $200. If there are still unresolved issues in three-six months, then reassessment may very well involve cortisol at that time.

Yes still diabetic, at the time I got an increase in SHBG 10->22 (A1C 6.6). I was in the verge or multiple mineral deficiencies and was completely unaware. If I knew then what I know now, I think my diabetes would be reversed by now.

I think that is wise. Some clinics prescribe based somewhat on a cookie cutter approach. You shouldn’t need anastrozole and with your history of joint pain/clicking, avoid it anyway. Higher E2 may help. I wouldn’t take the hCG unless you are actively trying to conceive. It would be nice to see your lipids next time.

I lived it. You are making a big mistake by starting TRT with weak adrenal function. TRT will make things worse. I am telling you the truth. It will not help until you normalize cortisol production. Your Reverse T3 will only go up from here. Your body REQUIRES cortisol to put the Free T3 into the cells. TRT will suppress the cortisol and make your situation worse. No libido, fat gain, muscle loss, depression. All these will get worse if you begin TRT. Remember I told you this, as you will regret it in the next month and beyond if you begin TRT.

You need to figure out why your adrenal’s are not producing cortisol/DHEA-S. Most often it is intestinal dysbiosis caused by prior history of antibiotic use. How are your stools? Loose? Soft,. poorly formed? The gut brain axis is required from normal adrenal function. Cortisol will decrease over time if your gut has too few good strains of bacteria and too many bad ones. Genova Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis is the best test to see your gut microbiome.

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@TRT_Phoenix Have you seen my thread?
I was wondering how much TRT actually decreases cortisol.

Renamed the thread so I can be like the cool kids.

So it will be eight weeks on Monday. I’m currently injecting Test-C 70mg E3.5D. Nothing else. Here are some notes:

  • I never really experienced a honeymoon phase unless the first half of week three counts.

  • I injected abdominal subq for the first six weeks, and then switched to IM in delts on reading so much advice from @dextermorgan and others. 29ga insulin needles seem to be just fine for that.

  • Libido and erection quality has been off and on since I started. Over the last two weeks, though, both have been way better. Morning wood has returned somewhat.

  • Fatigue has gone way, way down. Recovery from strength training and cardio is way up. Probably not on the level of a teenager or someone running a cycle, but still way better.

  • Body fat has finally begun coming off very slowly. I have been tracking macros militantly for about a year, so I know exactly what’s changed. I’ve actually increased calories by ~300 per day for the last month to aid in lean muscle bulking. Still eating in a moderate deficit most days.

  • Strength has been increasing much more rapidly in all primary movements. I’ve added nearly 40# to all three.

  • Anxiety is reduced pretty significantly.

  • Insulin response seems to be better. Eight weeks ago I was crashing hard after most meals. Elevated heart rate, sweating, fatigue, anxiety, slightly blurry vision. Sometimes falling asleep for an hour or more. That’s almost totally gone now.

  • Blood pressure wasn’t horrible before, but it’s actually dropped by 4-5 points on both numbers.

  • Gained about ten pounds in water weight pretty rapidly somewhere around week two or three. Still hasn’t come off.

I’m very happy with the results of this so far. I know it’s still early, but if this continues it will be life-changing. have two concerns that have cropped up recently:

  • I’ve had mild gyno since puberty, and my right nipple has become pretty tender and there is a noticeable lump behind it. I’ve ordered some Tamoxifen from Defy. We’ll see if they’re willing to write for it. In the meantime, I finally broke down and ate 0.125mg of anastrazole tonight. I don’t want to take it long-term if I don’t have to, but I do need to knock the nipple stuff back before it gets out of hand. Hopefully they’ll write for Tamoxifen.

  • My wrists have been cracking a lot lately and feel “thick” for lack of a better word. Not sure if this is also increased estrogen.

I would appreciate anyone’s thoughts and experiences on this if they have any to offer. From AI use to wrists or anything else. No follow up labs yet. Defy wants those in about a month I think.

Email me (in bio)

Done.

Hey - I emailed you a couple times but got no response. Did you ever receive them?

Maybe you put in the incorrect address? I don’t have any unresponded to emails. Send a new one.

Emailwithoutmynameinit@gmail.com

I had my three-month bloods done and thought I would follow up. Here are the results:

Test Result
Total Testosterone 1065 ng/dL
Free Testosterone 22.4 pg/mL (8.7-25.1)
Dihydrotestosterone 46 ng/dL (30-85)
DHEA-Sulfate 87.8 ug/dL (102-416)
Prolactin 9.4 ng/mL (4.0-15.2)
Estradiol 31.5 pg/mL (8.0-35.0)
SHBG 37.1 nmol/L (16.5-55.9)
TSH 2.21 uIU/mL (0.450-4.500)
PSA 0.7 (0.0-4.0)
RBC 5.75 (4.14-5.8)
Hemoglobin 16.8 g/dL (13-17.7)
Hematocrit 49.4 % (37.5-51.0)
T Chol 172 (100-199)
Triglycerides 50 (0-149)
HDL 56 (>39)
LDL 106 (0-99)
T Chol/HDL Ratio 3.1 (0-5)

Taken at trough at roughly the same time I pin on Monday mornings. Honestly I think these are pretty great results. I appear to be right down the middle as far as response to test therapy goes.

@highpull You asked for lipids - I would appreciate any thoughts you might have: There is a predictable increase in LDL and decrease in HDL. I’ve been supplementing with fish oil at 900mg/day, and will increase that to 1200mg. I eat extremely clean, so I’m really not sure what else I can do to limit LDL except get back into high intensity cardio once the gym bans are lifted (tomorrow in my state, thankfully).

DHT has come barely into range. DHEA is down from where it was pre-TRT, which was already low. I followed up with Dr. Calkins and he had me start 25mg DHEA every night. I had also recently started Tamoxifen 10mg/day, and at about 10+ days Tamoxifen and 3+ days DHEA supplementation I started getting pretty bad prostate inflammation. I discontinued both and that cleared up literally overnight. I’m not sure which it was, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was both. The Tamoxifen didn’t really seem to do much, so I must not have been dealing with actually current gyno symptoms - just some nipple puffiness and sensitivity.

Libido and erection quality still isn’t ideal. I would like to try an increased dosage of Test C, but didn’t push the issue with Dr. Calkins considering my Hct and Hg are approaching the top of their ranges. I’ll see how those numbers move over the next three months and reassess.

I inject in the evenings on Thursday and have noticed that more often than not, I don’t sleep well Thursday nights. I toss and turn, and just feel stimulated/wakeful, and get really hot. I’ve considered maybe pinning 80mg Thursday mornings instead, and keeping Mondays at 70mg. Any thoughts on that alternative dosing schedule from anyone? Would that dosing difference present any issues?

I’ll add a note on estrogen. This board is not going to like this, but I have to say, I feel better with an AI. I’m taking 0.125mg Mondays and 0.25mg Thursdays currently and feel better than I did without it. My E2 is still coming in at 32. Joints are great - better, actually. Without an AI my joints feel thick and pop constantly. The going advice would seem to be that I should drop the AI and drop my Test C dosage, but I’m not interested in that right now. If anything I’m planning a Test/Primo cycle for later this year. I’ve achieved symptom resolution almost across the board, and I’m adding lean mass in the gym at an astounding rate - especially lower body.

Wish I had started all this years ago!

Oh, and as far as blood pressure goes, I’ve seen another decline. It came in at 114/66 yesterday mid-morning. So much for all the bullshit about testosterone being bad for cardio health.

Your TSH is higher than it should be. You want it around 1. Get free t3 checked if you have any issues with fatigue. Cold or hot too easily. Thinning hair. Bad metabolism. I would check it regardless. You don’t want that getting worse. If you can control it now you will save yourself a ton of problems in the future. Thyroid is your major hormone it controls so much I can’t even write it up. From controlling your organs to metabolism and temperature. It also helps the body at the cellular level.

Allot of times if TSH is higher than normal it will continue to rise. Or it stays Put. Just keep an eye on it now that you are doing TRT.

I would test free t3, t4 and reverse t3. No exceptions. If doc won’t run the ft3 he is not well versed in thyroid health. I’d go get that lab myself at discounted labs.

Good luck and rock on!

Everyone thinks an Ai helps at one point in time. End of day you don’t need it. You need patience.

Go read the boards here. The guys who don’t take an ai rarely have any issues what so ever.

The guys who take ai always complain of issues.

I highly suggest you use logic here. Go find videos from Keith Nichols, Eric Serrano, Jeff grant, jay Campbell. They have actual research explaining why. The reasons for taking an ai have zero research backing it up. Every single study showing Trts benefits was done without an AI.

You do realize that your estrogen is going to produce half or More of the benefits you want form TRT right?

Give it time. Or in a few months or years you’ll be trying to get off it and realize how big a pain in the ass it is.

Go watch the anabolic docs video on ai and estrogen. He literally says it will decay your heart, cause heart attack, blood pressure issues and more. It should only be used in very rare cases and for a very short period of time.

All the research shows estrogen is a major factor of TRTs benefits. No clue why anyone would want to lower its benefits.

I didn’t mention it, but TSH is actually down about 1.5 points from 3.72 to 2.21. My rT3 was very high, though, and now that I feel good on Test C I’m going to go with Dr. Calkins prescription for compounded slow-release T3 (Levothyroxine).

I’ll let you know how it goes in a follow up. Calkins wants more bloods for thyroid in three months.

I spoke to caulking twice for my fiancé and my friend wife. Tell him you want to take it in the morning and one in the evening.

This is how t3 is supposed to be taken. It has a very short half life. Within a few hours it’s lowered considerably. You’ll probably feel a big drop in well being and will want another. Im shocked the guy didnt prescribe it as I stated.

I said to him what I just told you. Without a word he said “yes you are right”. Yet he continues to under dose patients. It’s like the dude doesn’t even care for his patients health: just wants to get you paying and carry on.

Be careful with these guys. Don’t trust those doctors words . Especially when it comes to an AI. Even the main doctor there has stated very clearly that the majority of men don’t need an ai. Like rarely. Hardly anyone, yet he gives an ai because men think they need it.

Anyways I’ve written so much on it and so have many others. I’m sure you can find my posts and others. End of day It’s your choice. I just hope you realize how harmful it is for your well being in the long run.

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Does this short half-life hold for the time-release compounded T3 as well?

You aren’t supposed to take such a small amount time release. These capsules are opened up and swallowed so that you can take it the right way. 5mcg spread throughout 24hours is ludicrous.