Spinal Erectors to Traps Connection

how about instead of us giving you advice- you give us advice—sick back shot man

i recall JOJ saying that he deadlifts first while training for powerlifting, and deadlifts last while training for bodybuilding

it gave me food for thought

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:
how about instead of us giving you advice- you give us advice—sick back shot man[/quote]

No kidding. Very few on this site have any business giving the OP advice.

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
Go heavier on deadlifts every few workouts such as ramping up to a 3-5rep max[/quote]

Thanks. I’m definitely more powerlifter-minded than bodybuilder-minded and I do do this regularly.

[quote]red04 wrote:
Umm… keep doing what you are doing, because you look pretty impressive. JoJ is on another level of back development(especially his erectors+traps, both lower+upper) even in comparison to almost every other pro BBer, so while it’s certainly a back to aspire to I wouldn’t use his development as a comparison to say your back is lacking. His conditioning in that picture also helps it stand out more.[/quote]

Thanks.

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:
how about instead of us giving you advice- you give us advice—sick back shot man[/quote]

Well, I’ve always centered my back training around deadlift. LIke I said before, deadlifts come first with chins and bentover rows tied for distant second. I think anything after that is just extra refinement.

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
i recall JOJ saying that he deadlifts first while training for powerlifting, and deadlifts last while training for bodybuilding

it gave me food for thought[/quote]

Either way, he definitely has a powerlifter-styled component as part of his training. I think this is key.

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:

No kidding. Very few on this site have any business giving the OP advice.[/quote]

Lol. I’m willing to take advice/critiques from anyone.

haha alright i have some questions for you Rser:

1- do you always deadlift heavy like that twice a week?
2- when you deadlift- do you bounce the reps off the floor, or do you do each rep from a deadstop?

when you say 4x6 on deads with all reps heavy im assuming you mean you workup to a heavy weight and do it for 4 ssts of six reps
IE
135x6
225x6
315x6
405x6
405x6
405x6
405x6

haha im sure you deadlift more than 405x6 :stuck_out_tongue:

  1. Nice back, people don’t appreciate a thick back like they should.
  2. you might need more volume to really bring out that detailed back.
  3. what I from a guy around the way to.hit those middle and lower traps is to add these three excercises:
    Face-pulls, shrug machine, and hypertensions.
    Like most I had overdeveloped upper traps and a gap down the center of y back so, at the end of my back workout ill add 3-d sets of rope face-pulls on the cable row with brief pauses at the top. I also use hammer strength shrug machine facing away from the machine. I bend forward and doo slow reps like 8 second reps. Then most days I sub heavy deads for weighted back extentsions. I start with my BW only and work up to holding three plates then drop back down to BW only. the pump is crazy- far greater than DL normally.

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:
haha alright i have some questions for you Rser:

1- do you always deadlift heavy like that twice a week?
2- when you deadlift- do you bounce the reps off the floor, or do you do each rep from a deadstop?

when you say 4x6 on deads with all reps heavy im assuming you mean you workup to a heavy weight and do it for 4 ssts of six reps
IE
135x6
225x6
315x6
405x6
405x6
405x6
405x6

haha im sure you deadlift more than 405x6 :stuck_out_tongue:
[/quote]

I do deadlift heavy 2x/week. When do 4x6 I bounce. When I’m doing lower reps I pause.

Yes, I do 4x6 at a top weight that I work up to.

[quote]SavagedNatiion wrote:

  1. Nice back, people don’t appreciate a thick back like they should.
  2. you might need more volume to really bring out that detailed back.
  3. what I from a guy around the way to.hit those middle and lower traps is to add these three excercises:
    Face-pulls, shrug machine, and hypertensions.
    Like most I had overdeveloped upper traps and a gap down the center of y back so, at the end of my back workout ill add 3-d sets of rope face-pulls on the cable row with brief pauses at the top. I also use hammer strength shrug machine facing away from the machine. I bend forward and doo slow reps like 8 second reps. Then most days I sub heavy deads for weighted back extentsions. I start with my BW only and work up to holding three plates then drop back down to BW only. the pump is crazy- far greater than DL normally.[/quote]

Thanks for the recommendations! I’ll try to incorporate these in place of the behind-neck pulldowns.

rser how long you been lifting for?

[quote]optheta wrote:
rser how long you been lifting for? [/quote]

About 10 years total

[quote]rser wrote:
Looking at myself from this perspective for the first time, I actually am able to make out the development in my middle back. Its visibility seems to depend much on the pose used. Regardless, Chris Colucci, what recommendations do you have?[/quote]
Ha, dude, I do have to admit I wasn’t expecting that kind of development. Most of the time, when someone asks how to target a certain muscle and says they already have “great” development, they’re 5’10" and 140 pounds. :wink: Really nice work.

Could be a few things worth trying in addition to what’s already been mentioned. Since most of your training seems to be in the 6-8 rep range and you’re training back twice a week, try one session with higher rep work focusing on MMC with deliberate stretches and/or peak contractions - things like deadstop rows, one and a half rep seatedrows (full pull, half a concentric, pull back for a second contraction = one rep), reverse incline flyes or shrugs, etc. could help.

Check these articles and try a few of the exercises/drills to see what helps your mid back to fire:

great back man! other than continuing what you’ve been doing it looks like the muscles you want to beef up are the lower traps, rhomboids, and the thoracic spinal erectors. Every one knows of the lumbar erectors (the ones near the waist) but forget that there are muscles under the traps and rhomboids that extend the thoracic and cervical spine. try adding in prone shrugs: Horizontal shrugs - YouTube for the rhomboids and lower traps. And upper back goodmornings for the thoracic extensors. the upper back good mornings are at 4:50 in this vid: - YouTube

Now back to JOJ back-- that shit looks retarded. All IFBB athletes are all champions to me despite their individual shortcomings.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]rser wrote:
Looking at myself from this perspective for the first time, I actually am able to make out the development in my middle back. Its visibility seems to depend much on the pose used. Regardless, Chris Colucci, what recommendations do you have?[/quote]
Ha, dude, I do have to admit I wasn’t expecting that kind of development. Most of the time, when someone asks how to target a certain muscle and says they already have “great” development, they’re 5’10" and 140 pounds. :wink: Really nice work.

Could be a few things worth trying in addition to what’s already been mentioned. Since most of your training seems to be in the 6-8 rep range and you’re training back twice a week, try one session with higher rep work focusing on MMC with deliberate stretches and/or peak contractions - things like deadstop rows, one and a half rep seatedrows (full pull, half a concentric, pull back for a second contraction = one rep), reverse incline flyes or shrugs, etc. could help.

Check these articles and try a few of the exercises/drills to see what helps your mid back to fire:

[/quote]

Thanks, dude. After reading those articles, I’ve concluded that I’m definitely “lat-dominant.” I do the bentover rows with the aim of giving my back that cavernous appearance while I rely on chins to get my lats to flare out; so I guess I’ll stick to overhand bentover rows. I’ll also give the seated rows a try.

[quote]coolusername wrote:
great back man! other than continuing what you’ve been doing it looks like the muscles you want to beef up are the lower traps, rhomboids, and the thoracic spinal erectors. Every one knows of the lumbar erectors (the ones near the waist) but forget that there are muscles under the traps and rhomboids that extend the thoracic and cervical spine. try adding in prone shrugs: Horizontal shrugs - YouTube for the rhomboids and lower traps. And upper back goodmornings for the thoracic extensors. the upper back good mornings are at 4:50 in this vid: - YouTube

Thanks. I don’t have anything in my gym to do the upper back goodmornings, but I will indeed give the prone shrugs a try.

[quote]SavagedNatiion wrote:
Now back to JOJ back-- that shit looks retarded. All IFBB athletes are all champions to me despite their individual shortcomings.[/quote]

I agree.

you can do the upper back good morning with a regular barbell. add a pad if it helps. the important thing is to maintain the lower back arch while you let your upper back round over under control.

[quote]coolusername wrote:
you can do the upper back good morning with a regular barbell. add a pad if it helps. the important thing is to maintain the lower back arch while you let your upper back round over under control.[/quote]

Thanks.

Do a combination 2 exercises. Hyperextension+dbell row lift at same time- Start with you back extension and as you come up row the weight to you waist-- start light for and keep volume high.

[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
Do a combination 2 exercises. Hyperextension+dbell row lift at same time- Start with you back extension and as you come up row the weight to you waist-- start light for and keep volume high.

[/quote]

Thanks.