T Nation

Spike, Fibromyalsia and SSNRI

Supplements and Nutrition
#1

Does any one have experience with using Spike for the condition Fibromyalsia. My fiancé may have it or a similar condition. Symptoms are muscle soreness, low pain tolerance, tactile allodynia, sensitivity to touch. She has trouble with the tactile sensation of wearing certain clothes or fabrics.

Also irritability, angry outbursts, PMS.

I read back in 2005 Tim said he thought spike may be contraindicated for fibromyalsia. Was wondering f anyone had actually tried it.
I saw that in 2005 Biotet had a product called Myalgistat. Did that ever pan out.

the reason I think Spike might help is gecause of the thiamin analog.
Also does Spike have any negative reactions with SSRI or SSNRI ie cymbalta or Effexor

#2

I believe it was actually an ingredient in HOT-ROX, not Spike.

I dont think anyone on this board is going to feel comfortable giving you medical advice over the internet. As always, talk to your doctor about this issue. ESPECIALLY if you are already taking things like SSRI’s etc… The last thing you want it to have some kind of reaction between the two meds, particularly if you are going behind your doctors back and not telling them about other stuff you are taking.

#3

[quote]Chrion777 wrote:
Does any one have experience with using Spike for the condition Fibromyalsia. My fianc�© may have it or a similar condition. Symptoms are muscle soreness, low pain tolerance, tactile allodynia, sensitivity to touch. She has trouble with the tactile sensation of wearing certain clothes or fabrics.

Also irritability, angry outbursts, PMS.

I read back in 2005 Tim said he thought spike may be contraindicated for fibromyalsia. Was wondering f anyone had actually tried it.
I saw that in 2005 Biotet had a product called Myalgistat. Did that ever pan out.

the reason I think Spike might help is gecause of the thiamin analog.
Also does Spike have any negative reactions with SSRI or SSNRI ie cymbalta or Effexor

[/quote]
Contraindicated means you should NOT take it if you have fibro.

#4

Can you elaborate as to why it’s contraindicated? I believe thiamine itself would be beneficial, is the thiamine analog somehow bad for it?

Also, second question, what about Indigo-3G. My fiance also has insulin resistance and very high C-reactive protein levels. Would the insulin reshuffling help her? How well does it work for women in general?

[/quote]
Contraindicated means you should NOT take it if you have fibro.[/quote]

#5

Would any Biotest products be helpful more then others for Fibro. Not looking for medical advice, just general opinions and helpful direction?
:slight_smile:

#6

[quote]Chrion777 wrote:
Would any Biotest products be helpful more then others for Fibro. Not looking for medical advice, just general opinions and helpful direction?
:slight_smile:
[/quote]

My opinion is that you should have her seek qualified medical advice. Not trying to be a jerk.

#7

[quote]Mdgray82 wrote:
My opinion is that you should have her seek qualified medical advice. Not trying to be a jerk.[/quote]

Exactly, and this is doubly important if she is already on other medications that could interact.

No one here can answer why its contraindicated… The product doesn’t even exist any more, how could we possibly know why its contraindicated?

Again, talk with your doctor about these things… You absolutely MUST let your doctor know what you are taking, or the treatments they prescribe might work differently than they are anticipating which could throw off their entire course of treatment.

#8

sorry guys, was hoping to get better answers then that. I posted here because in the past I saw some individuals post who were very familiar with biochemistry.

She’s already under the care of a doctor and has about a 50% improvement. Looking for things to close the gap that won’t interfere with her current medication.

Most Doctors don’t know the slightest thing about how to really go about treating complex situations. Most of them won’t even tell you to take b12 and folic acid at the same time, even though that is well documented and common knowledge. Today’s Doctors only know how to prescribe pharmaceuticals and they don’t even have a good grasp of why things work.

Also, Spike is not discontinued, why is what I was asking about being contraindicated. Also Indigo-3G same thing. No doctor is going to have any clue about using thiamin analogs or insulin repartionining hormones.

Fibromyalsia drugs are limited to SSNRI and some gaba-channel drugs like gabapentin. They help but there is still a lot to be desired. I believe there are other things that can close much more of the gap.

If you guys don’t know the answer that’s fine, just don’t respond.

#9

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/EnforcementActivitiesbyFDA/CyberLetters/ucm059150.pdf

Basically, you can’t make claims that supplement can treat or cure a disease because that would make it a “drug” which has to be regulated(caughpaid-offcaugh) by the FDA.

#10

I know this, but no one is making claims. I’m asking for the T-Nation community in a blog to give some general feedback. I’m not looking for Bioetest to publically come out and state anything. While Biotest can’t make claims, there’s nothing stopping individuals on a blog from giving their personal experience or opinion.

[quote]i_am_ketosis wrote:
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/EnforcementActivitiesbyFDA/CyberLetters/ucm059150.pdf

Basically, you can’t make claims that supplement can treat or cure a disease because that would make it a “drug” which has to be regulated(caughpaid-offcaugh) by the FDA. [/quote]

#11

Fibromyalgia

Three studies have suggested that 5-HTP can improve symptoms of fibromyalgia, including pain, anxiety, morning stiffness, and fatigue. Many people with fibromyalgia have low levels of serotonin, and doctors often prescribe antidepressants. Since 5-HTP, like antidepressants, raises levels of serotonin in the brain, it may work too. However, it does not work for all people with fibromyalgia, and more studies are needed to understand its effect.

  1. 5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP)

The supplement 5-HTP is thought to work by increasing levels of the neurotransmitter serotonin in the brain. There is preliminary evidence that it may reduce the number of tender points in people with fibromyalgia, possibly by effecting pain-modulating systems in the brainstem.

A double-blind, placebo controlled study looked at 5-HTP or placebo in 50 people with fibromyalgia. After four weeks, people taking 5-HTP had a significant improvement in pain, the number of tender points, stiffness, anxiety, fatigue, and sleep. Side effects were mild and transient.

#12

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
Fibromyalgia

Three studies have suggested that 5-HTP can improve symptoms of fibromyalgia, including pain, anxiety, morning stiffness, and fatigue. Many people with fibromyalgia have low levels of serotonin, and doctors often prescribe antidepressants. Since 5-HTP, like antidepressants, raises levels of serotonin in the brain, it may work too. However, it does not work for all people with fibromyalgia, and more studies are needed to understand its effect.

  1. 5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP)

The supplement 5-HTP is thought to work by increasing levels of the neurotransmitter serotonin in the brain. There is preliminary evidence that it may reduce the number of tender points in people with fibromyalgia, possibly by effecting pain-modulating systems in the brainstem.

A double-blind, placebo controlled study looked at 5-HTP or placebo in 50 people with fibromyalgia. After four weeks, people taking 5-HTP had a significant improvement in pain, the number of tender points, stiffness, anxiety, fatigue, and sleep. Side effects were mild and transient.[/quote]

The drug the the OP is talking about combining with is a Serotonin/Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. If 5-HTP does in fact increase serotonin then the combination could elevate levels too much. Google serotonin syndrome.

This is why I said to work with a physician that knows her case.

#13

The Myalgistat supplement was made from an ingredient in the OLD version of HOT-ROX… NOT SPIKE. You aren’t even asking about the right supplement. No one has ever mentioned anything about Indigo-3G for pain relief or Fibromyalgia, so you are also on your own there.

The reason many of us are hesitant to give advise is because, even though we are “anonymous” on an internet forum, if you try something based on our advise and something unwanted should happen to your wife, you can attempt blame one of us for giving you medical advise. And while more than likely nothing would come of it, its a risk that almost no one would be willing to take.

Given that there are exactly ZERO studies done on the supplements, the chemical in the supplements, for the condition you are seeking advice on, I’m not really sure what kind of answers you were looking for.

#14

Yep, I know what Seratonin Syndrome is. Also I do not believe FMS has it’s roots in seratonin metabolism. The noradreanaline component seems to be what helps with the pain levels.

Pure SSRIs are not very effective but SSNRI’s help about 50%

#15

[quote]Chrion777 wrote:
sorry guys, was hoping to get better answers then that. I posted here because in the past I saw some individuals post who were very familiar with biochemistry.

She’s already under the care of a doctor and has about a 50% improvement. Looking for things to close the gap that won’t interfere with her current medication.

Most Doctors don’t know the slightest thing about how to really go about treating complex situations. Most of them won’t even tell you to take b12 and folic acid at the same time, even though that is well documented and common knowledge. Today’s Doctors only know how to prescribe pharmaceuticals and they don’t even have a good grasp of why things work.

Also, Spike is not discontinued, why is what I was asking about being contraindicated. Also Indigo-3G same thing. No doctor is going to have any clue about using thiamin analogs or insulin repartionining hormones.

Fibromyalsia drugs are limited to SSNRI and some gaba-channel drugs like gabapentin. They help but there is still a lot to be desired. I believe there are other things that can close much more of the gap.

If you guys don’t know the answer that’s fine, just don’t respond.

[/quote]
Oh fuck, not another one.

There are lots of treatments for fibromyalGia, but no cure. Tylenol, Tramadol, physical training, TENS units, acupuncture and cognitive behavioral therapy can help.