Specter Becomes Democrat

Olympia Snowe speaks:

[i]We Didn?t Have to Lose Arlen Specter

IT is disheartening and disconcerting, at the very least, that here we are today ? almost exactly eight years after Senator Jim Jeffords left the Republican Party ? witnessing the departure of my good friend and fellow moderate Republican, Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, for the Democratic Party. And the announcement of his switch was all the more painful because I believe it didn?t have to be this way.

When Senator Jeffords became an independent in 2001, I said it was a sad day for the Republicans, but it would be even sadder if we failed to confront and learn from the devaluation of diversity within the party that contributed to his defection. I also noted that we were far from the heady days of 1998, when Republicans were envisioning the possibility of a filibuster-proof 60-vote margin. (Recall that in the 2000 election, most pundits were shocked when Republicans lost five seats, resulting in a 50-50 Senate.)

I could have hardly imagined then that, in 2009, we would fondly reminisce about the time when we were disappointed to fall short of 60 votes in the Senate. Regrettably, we failed to learn the lessons of Jim Jeffords?s defection in 2001. To the contrary, we overreached in interpreting the results of the presidential election of 2004 as a mandate for the party. This resulted in the disastrous elections of 2006 and 2008, which combined for a total loss of 51 Republicans in the House and 13 in the Senate ? with a corresponding shift of the Congressional majority and the White House to the Democrats.

It was as though beginning with Senator Jeffords?s decision, Republicans turned a blind eye to the iceberg under the surface, failing to undertake the re-evaluation of our inclusiveness as a party that could have forestalled many of the losses we have suffered.

[b]It is true that being a Republican moderate sometimes feels like being a cast member of ?Survivor? ? you are presented with multiple challenges, and you often get the distinct feeling that you?re no longer welcome in the tribe. But it is truly a dangerous signal that a Republican senator of nearly three decades no longer felt able to remain in the party.

Senator Specter indicated that his decision was based on the political situation in Pennsylvania, where he faced a tough primary battle. In my view, the political environment that has made it inhospitable for a moderate Republican in Pennsylvania is a microcosm of a deeper, more pervasive problem that places our party in jeopardy nationwide.

I have said that, without question, we cannot prevail as a party without conservatives. But it is equally certain we cannot prevail in the future without moderates.[/b]

In that same vein, I am reminded of a briefing by a prominent Republican pollster after the 2004 election. He was asked what voter groups Republicans might be able to win over. He responded: women in general, married women with children, Hispanics, the middle class in general, and independents.

How well have we done as a party with these groups? Unfortunately, the answer is obvious from the results of the last two elections. We should be reaching out to these segments of our population ? not de facto ceding them to the opposing party.

There is no plausible scenario under which Republicans can grow into a majority while shrinking our ideological confines and continuing to retract into a regional party. Ideological purity is not the ticket back to the promised land of governing majorities ? indeed, it was when we began to emphasize social issues to the detriment of some of our basic tenets as a party that we encountered an electoral backlash.

It is for this reason that we should heed the words of President Ronald Reagan, who urged, [u]?We should emphasize the things that unite us and make these the only ?litmus test? of what constitutes a Republican: our belief in restraining government spending, pro-growth policies, tax reduction, sound national defense, and maximum individual liberty.? He continued, ?As to the other issues that draw on the deep springs of morality and emotion, let us decide that we can disagree among ourselves as Republicans and tolerate the disagreement.?[/u]

I couldn?t agree more. We can?t continue to fold our philosophical tent into an umbrella under which only a select few are worthy to stand. Rather, we should view an expansion of diversity within the party as a triumph that will broaden our appeal. That is the political road map we must follow to victory.

Olympia Snowe is a Republican senator from Maine. [/i]

I especially like this from Reagan:

The religious right took over the Republican party after Reagan left office, trying to push their idea of morality on the rest of the country, and it bit them in the butt.

There was an interesting article yesterday in the NY Times which made the same point, in the context of the Republican party rethinking its stance on gay marriage:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Jeff R wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
I think the Republican Party has turned into (or become) something that is unrecognizable. Back in the day, the definition of a Republican was pretty clear. Nowadays its hard to figure out what’s going on with them. I am sure that that played a part in his changing parties. That and that he can’t win Pennsylvania.

I’m wondering if we are seeing the Republicans shedding their dead weight.

While I don’t like losing any race, one wonders if it’s part of getting back to principles.

No one can claim specter was much of a Conservative.

I’m thinking they are moving back to the Right.

The recent votes in the Senate/House over the budgets gave me great hope.

JeffR

This is a serious question:

Getting back to what “principles”?

(And if you say “less government”, I’ll throw up…)

Mufasa

[/quote]

Get ready to bust out the anti-emetic: LESS GOVERNMENT/LESS SPENDING.

Take a look at the CBO projections.

9-10 TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT!!! Our GDP is roughly 15 trillion a year, TOTAL.

obama pushing a 3.6 trillion dollar Federal Budget?!?

9000 earmarks?!? Get serious.

Less government/spending is a winnable argument and what the Republicans need to stand for at all times.

JeffR

…“Shoulda’/Woulda’/Coulda’…”

Bibbity, Bobbity…Boo…

The GOP may talk a big game about “Less Goverment/Less Spending”…and then spend like a drunk sailor on shore leave (like all politicians do…)

When faced with what this country was facing…you seem to forget that McCain was suggesting budgets not much different from Obama’s in terms of total spending…

Mufasa

I guess in this contemporary environment of mass wide eyed non pharmaceutical hallucination that there would be people that see the GOP getting more conservative since Reagan.

If only we someone like Him right now.

[quote]Ronald Reagan said March 1, 1975 at CPAC:
Since our last meeting we have been through a disastrous election. It is easy for us to be discouraged, as pundits hail that election as a repudiation of our philosophy and even as a mandate of some kind or other. But the significance of the election was not registered by those who voted, but by those who stayed home. If there was anything like a mandate it will be found among almost two-thirds of the citizens who refused to participate.

Bitter as it is to accept the results of the November election, we should have reason for some optimism. For many years now we have preached ?the gospel,? in opposition to the philosophy of so-called liberalism which was, in truth, a call to collectivism.

Now, it is possible we have been persuasive to a greater degree than we had ever realized. Few, if any, Democratic party candidates in the last election ran as liberals. Listening to them I had the eerie feeling we were hearing reruns of Goldwater speeches. I even thought I heard a few of my own.

Bureaucracy was assailed and fiscal responsibility hailed. Even George McGovern donned sackcloth and ashes and did penance for the good people of South Dakota.

But let?s not be so naive as to think we are witnessing a mass conversion to the principles of conservatism. Once sworn into office, the victors reverted to type. In their view, apparently, the ends justified the means.

The ?Young Turks? had campaigned against ?evil politicians.? They turned against committee chairmen of their own party, displaying a taste and talent as cutthroat power politicians quite in contrast to their campaign rhetoric and idealism. Still, we must not forget that they molded their campaigning to fit what even they recognized was the mood of the majority.

And we must see to it that the people are reminded of this as they now pursue their ideological goals?and pursue them they will.

I know you are aware of the national polls which show that a greater (and increasing) number of Americans?Republicans, Democrats and independents?classify themselves as ?conservatives? than ever before. And a poll of rank-and-file union members reveals dissatisfaction with the amount of power their own leaders have assumed, and a resentment of their use of that power for partisan politics. Would it shock you to know that in that poll 68 percent of rank-and-file union members of this country came out endorsing right-to-work legislation?

These polls give cause for some optimism, but at the same time reveal a confusion that exists and the need for a continued effort to ?spread the word.?

In another recent survey, of 35,000 college and university students polled, three-fourths blame American business and industry for all of our economic and social ills. The same three-fourths think the answer is more (and virtually complete) regimentation and government control of all phases of business?including the imposition of wage and price controls. Yet, 80 percent in the same poll want less government interference in their own lives!

In 1972 the people of this country had a clear-cut choice, based on the issues?to a greater extent than any election in half a century. In overwhelming numbers they ignored party labels, not so much to vote for a man or even a policy as to repudiate a philosophy. In doing so they repudiated that final step into the welfare state?that call for the confiscation and redistribution of their earnings on a scale far greater than what we now have. They repudiated the abandonment of national honor and a weakening of this nation?s ability to protect itself.

A study has been made that is so revealing that I?m not surprised it has been ignored by a certain number of political commentators and columnists. The political science department of Georgetown University researched the mandate of the 1972 election and recently presented its findings at a seminar.

Taking several major issues which, incidentally, are still the issues of the day, they polled rank-and-file members of the Democratic party on their approach to these problems. Then they polled the delegates to the two major national conventions?the leaders of the parties.

They found the delegates to the Republican convention almost identical in their responses to those of the rank-and-file Republicans. Yet, the delegates to the Democratic convention were miles apart from the thinking of their own party members.

The mandate of 1972 still exists. The people of America have been confused and disturbed by events since that election, but they hold an unchanged philosophy.

Our task is to make them see that what we represent is identical to their own hopes and dreams of what America can and should be. If there are questions as to whether the principles of conservatism hold up in practice, we have the answers to them. Where conservative principles have been tried, they have worked. Gov. Meldrim Thomson is making them work in New Hampshire; so is Arch Moore in West Virginia and Mills Godwin in Virginia. Jack Williams made them work in Arizona and I?m sure Jim Edwards will in South Carolina.

If you will permit me, I can recount my own experience in California.

When I went to Sacramento eight years ago, I had the belief that government was no deep, dark mystery, that it could be operated efficiently by using the same common sense practiced in our everyday life, in our homes, in business and private affairs.

The ?lab test? of my theory ? California?was pretty messed up after eight years of a road show version of the Great Society. Our first and only briefing came from the outgoing director of finance, who said: ?We?re spending $1 million more a day than we?re taking in. I have a golf date. Good luck!? That was the most cheerful news we were to hear for quite some time.

California state government was increasing by about 5,000 new employees a year. We were the welfare capital of the world with 16 percent of the nation?s caseload. Soon, California?s caseload was increasing by 40,000 a month.

We turned to the people themselves for help. Two hundred and fifty experts in the various fields volunteered to serve on task forces at no cost to the taxpayers. They went into every department of state government and came back with 1,800 recommendations on how modern business practices could be used to make government more efficient. We adopted 1,600 of them.

We instituted a policy of ?cut, squeeze and trim? and froze the hiring of employees as replacements for retiring employees or others leaving state service.

After a few years of struggling with the professional welfarists, we again turned to the people. First, we obtained another task force and, when the legislature refused to help implement its recommendations, we presented the recommendations to the electorate.

It still took some doing. The legislature insisted our reforms would not work; that the needy would starve in the streets; that the workload would be dumped on the counties; that property taxes would go up and that we?d run up a deficit the first year of $750 million.

That was four years ago. Today, the needy have had an average increase of 43 percent in welfare grants in California, but the taxpayers have saved $2 billion by the caseload not increasing that 40,000 a month. Instead, there are some 400,000 fewer on welfare today

than then.

Forty of the state?s 58 counties have reduced property taxes for two years in a row (some for three). That $750-million deficit turned into an $850-million surplus which we returned to the people in a one-time tax rebate. That wasn?t easy. One state senator described that rebate as ?an unnecessary expenditure of public funds.?

For more than two decades governments?federal, state, local?have been increasing in size two-and-a-half times faster than the population increase. In the last 10 years they have increased the cost in payroll seven times as fast as the increase in numbers.

We have just turned over to a new administration in Sacramento a government virtually the same size it was eight years ago. With the state?s growth rate, this means that government absorbed a workload increase, in some departments as much as 66 percent.

We also turned over?for the first time in almost a quarter of a century?a balanced budget and a surplus of $500 million. In these eight years just passed, we returned to the people in rebates, tax reductions and bridge toll reductions $5.7 billion. All of this is contrary to the will of those who deplore conservatism and profess to be liberals, yet all of it is pleasing to its citizenry.

Make no mistake, the leadership of the Democratic party is still out of step with the majority of Americans.

Speaker Carl Albert recently was quoted as saying that our problem is ?60 percent recession, 30 percent inflation and 10 percent energy.? That makes as much sense as saying two and two make 22.

Without inflation there would be no recession. And unless we curb inflation we can see the end of our society and economic system. The painful fact is we can only halt inflation by undergoing a period of economic dislocation?a recession, if you will.

We can take steps to ease the suffering of some who will be hurt more than others, but if we turn from fighting inflation and adopt a program only to fight recession we are on the road to disaster.

In his first address to Congress, the president asked Congress to join him in an all-out effort to balance the budget. I think all of us wish that he had re-issued that speech instead of this year?s budget message.

What side can be taken in a debate over whether the deficit should be $52 billion or $70 billion or $80 billion preferred by the profligate Congress?

Inflation has one cause and one cause only: government spending more than government takes in. And the cure to inflation is a balanced budget. We know, of course, that after 40 years of social tinkering and Keynesian experimentation that we can?t do this all at once, but it can be achieved. Balancing the budget is like protecting your virtue: you have to learn to say ?no.?

This is no time to repeat the shopworn panaceas of the New Deal, the Fair Deal and the Great Society. John Kenneth Galbraith, who, in my opinion, is living proof that economics is an inexact science, has written a new book. It is called ?Economics and the Public Purpose.? In it, he asserts that market arrangements in our economy have given us inadequate housing, terrible mass transit, poor health care and a host of other miseries. And then, for the first time to my knowledge, he advances socialism as the answer to our problems.

Shorn of all side issues and extraneous matter, the problem underlying all others is the worldwide contest for the hearts and minds of mankind. Do we find the answers to human misery in freedom as it is known, or do we sink into the deadly dullness of the Socialist ant heap?

Those who suggest that the latter is some kind of solution are, I think, open to challenge. Let?s have no more theorizing when actual comparison is possible. There is in the world a great nation, larger than ours in territory and populated with 250 million capable people. It is rich in resources and has had more than 50 uninterrupted years to practice socialism without opposition.

We could match them, but it would take a little doing on our part. We?d have to cut our paychecks back by 75 percent; move 60 million workers back to the farm; abandon two-thirds of our steel-making capacity; destroy 40 million television sets; tear up 14 of every 15 miles of highway; junk 19 of every 20 automobiles; tear up two-thirds of our railroad track; knock down 70 percent of our houses; and rip out nine out of every 10 telephones. Then, all we have to do is find a capitalist country to sell us wheat on credit to keep us from starving!

Our people are in a time of discontent. Our vital energy supplies are threatened by possibly the most powerful cartel in human history. Our traditional allies in Western Europe are experiencing political and economic instability bordering on chaos.

We seem to be increasingly alone in a world grown more hostile, but we let our defenses shrink to pre-Pearl Harbor levels. And we are conscious that in Moscow the crash build-up of arms continues. The SALT II agreement in Vladivostok, if not re-negotiated, guarantees the Soviets a clear missile superiority sufficient to make a ?first strike? possible, with little fear of reprisal. Yet, too many congressmen demand further cuts in our own defenses, including delay if not cancellation of the B-1 bomber.

I realize that millions of Americans are sick of hearing about Indochina, and perhaps it is politically unwise to talk of our obligation to Cambodia and South Vietnam. But we pledged?in an agreement that brought our men home and freed our prisoners?to give our allies arms and ammunition to replace on a one-for-one basis what they expend in resisting the aggression of the Communists who are violating the cease-fire and are fully aided by their Soviet and Red Chinese allies. Congress has already reduced the appropriation to half of what they need and threatens to reduce it even more.

Can we live with ourselves if we, as a nation, betray our friends and ignore our pledged word? And, if we do, who would ever trust us again? To consider committing such an act so contrary to our deepest ideals is symptomatic of the erosion of standards and values. And this adds to our discontent.

We did not seek world leadership; it was thrust upon us. It has been our destiny almost from the first moment this land was settled. If we fail to keep our rendezvous with destiny or, as John Winthrop said in 1630, ?Deal falsely with our God,? we shall be made ?a story and byword throughout the world.?

Americans are hungry to feel once again a sense of mission and greatness.

I don ?t know about you, but I am impatient with those Republicans who after the last election rushed into print saying, ?We must broaden the base of our party??when what they meant was to fuzz up and blur even more the differences between ourselves and our opponents.

It was a feeling that there was not a sufficient difference now between the parties that kept a majority of the voters away from the polls. When have we ever advocated a closed-door policy? Who has ever been barred from participating?

Our people look for a cause to believe in. Is it a third party we need, or is it a new and revitalized second party, raising a banner of no pale pastels, but bold colors which make it unmistakably clear where we stand on all of the issues troubling the people?

Let us show that we stand for fiscal integrity and sound money and above all for an end to deficit spending, with ultimate retirement of the national debt.

Let us also include a permanent limit on the percentage of the people?s earnings government can take without their consent.

Let our banner proclaim a genuine tax reform that will begin by simplifying the income tax so that workers can compute their obligation without having to employ legal help.

And let it provide indexing?adjusting the brackets to the cost of living?so that an increase in salary merely to keep pace with inflation does not move the taxpayer into a surtax bracket. Failure to provide this means an increase in government?s share and would make the worker worse off than he was before he got the raise.

Let our banner proclaim our belief in a free market as the greatest provider for the people.

Let us also call for an end to the nit-picking, the harassment and over-regulation of business and industry which restricts expansion and our ability to compete in world markets.

Let us explore ways to ward off socialism, not by increasing government?s coercive power, but by increasing participation by the people in the ownership of our industrial machine.

Our banner must recognize the responsibility of government to protect the law-abiding, holding those who commit misdeeds personally accountable.

And we must make it plain to international adventurers that our love of peace stops short of ?peace at any price.?

We will maintain whatever level of strength is necessary to preserve our free way of life.

A political party cannot be all things to all people. It must represent certain fundamental beliefs which must not be compromised to political expediency, or simply to swell its numbers.

I do not believe I have proposed anything that is contrary to what has been considered Republican principle. It is at the same time the very basis of conservatism. It is time to reassert that principle and raise it to full view. And if there are those who cannot subscribe to these principles, then let them go their way.[/quote]

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
…“Shoulda’/Woulda’/Coulda’…”

Bibbity, Bobbity…Boo…

The GOP may talk a big game about “Less Goverment/Less Spending”…and then spend like a drunk sailor on shore leave (like all politicians do…)

When faced with what this country was facing…you seem to forget that McCain was suggesting budgets not much different from Obama’s in terms of total spending…

Mufasa[/quote]

mufasa,

I think you need to check your facts. I could be wrong, but, I don’t think he’d have spent more than all previous presidents. Nor do I think you’ll find him voting for any of these budgets.

Find me where he advocated a 3.6 trillion budget? If he did, show me where, kindly.

I just know you aren’t going to contend that McCain would have voted for a bill that had 9000 earmarks.

If McCain was anything, he was pretty consistent 'bout earmarks.

Don’t get me wrong, McCain wasn’t my ideal candidate, but, next to this guy, he was Reaganesque.

JeffR

As if there is a difference between the two parties.

Too easy!

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I think the Republican Party has turned into (or become) something that is unrecognizable. Back in the day, the definition of a Republican was pretty clear. Nowadays its hard to figure out what’s going on with them. I am sure that that played a part in his changing parties. That and that he can’t win Pennsylvania. [/quote]

The funny thing is that the republican party has been moving closer to his political idiology. This idea that the republican party is moving too far right is laughable. The fact is that there are few republicans in office i would chose to keep on my side. Sadly, i can only think of two off the top of my head.

[quote]forlife wrote:
I especially like this from Reagan:

It is for this reason that we should heed the words of President Ronald Reagan, who urged, “We should emphasize the things that unite us and make these the only ‘litmus test’ of what constitutes a Republican: our belief in restraining government spending, pro-growth policies, tax reduction, sound national defense, and maximum individual liberty.” He continued, “As to the other issues that draw on the deep springs of morality and emotion, let us decide that we can disagree among ourselves as Republicans and tolerate the disagreement”.

The religious right took over the Republican party after Reagan left office, trying to push their idea of morality on the rest of the country, and it bit them in the butt.

There was an interesting article yesterday in the NY Times which made the same point, in the context of the Republican party rethinking its stance on gay marriage:

[/quote]

you’ve got to be kidding me. nobody gives a shit about gay marriage. if this is a deciding factor in anyones vote, they are a fucking idiot. We are teatering on the brink of financial collapse and are on the fast track to statism.

you were entertaining for like three threads. Now you just sound like an idiot bringing this up in every thread. especially in one about a national representative that constitutionally shouldn’t even be legislating on gay marriage. give it a fucking rest already and go back to staring at your little bicep in your pretty little tank top.

[quote]Jeff R wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
Jeff R wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
I think the Republican Party has turned into (or become) something that is unrecognizable. Back in the day, the definition of a Republican was pretty clear. Nowadays its hard to figure out what’s going on with them. I am sure that that played a part in his changing parties. That and that he can’t win Pennsylvania.

I’m wondering if we are seeing the Republicans shedding their dead weight.

While I don’t like losing any race, one wonders if it’s part of getting back to principles.

No one can claim specter was much of a Conservative.

I’m thinking they are moving back to the Right.

The recent votes in the Senate/House over the budgets gave me great hope.

JeffR

This is a serious question:

Getting back to what “principles”?

(And if you say “less government”, I’ll throw up…)

Mufasa

Get ready to bust out the anti-emetic: LESS GOVERNMENT/LESS SPENDING.

Take a look at the CBO projections.

9-10 TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT!!! Our GDP is roughly 15 trillion a year, TOTAL.

obama pushing a 3.6 trillion dollar Federal Budget?!?

9000 earmarks?!? Get serious.

Less government/spending is a winnable argument and what the Republicans need to stand for at all times.

JeffR

[/quote]

That’s childs play. Try around 50 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
…“Shoulda’/Woulda’/Coulda’…”

Bibbity, Bobbity…Boo…

The GOP may talk a big game about “Less Goverment/Less Spending”…and then spend like a drunk sailor on shore leave (like all politicians do…)

When faced with what this country was facing…you seem to forget that McCain was suggesting budgets not much different from Obama’s in terms of total spending…

Mufasa[/quote]

nail on the head.

Let’s be real. All we are going to hear is about piddley little earmarks that are just spending money already allocated. We will hear about tax cuts without any meaningful reduction in federal spending.

We will not hear about welfare reform.
We will not hear about social security reform.
We not hear about closing any of the 700 military bases we have overseas.
We will not hear about any meaning full reform in excessive regulation.
We will not hear about reigning in an overreaching judiciary.
We will not hear about the 4th arm of gov’t. The unelected regulatory army that acts as legislator, police, judge, jury, and executioner.
We will not hear about protectionist tarrifs and subsidies.
We will not hear about restoring states’ rights.

The rest of it is just fucking noise.

[quote]dhickey wrote:
you’ve got to be kidding me. nobody gives a shit about gay marriage. if this is a deciding factor in anyones vote, they are a fucking idiot.[/quote]

Awesome, you just described about 80% of GW’s base. You can try and argue that getting this issue on the ballot was a major factor in 2004 for Bush, but you’d be lying and you damn well know it.

[quote]dhickey wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
…“Shoulda’/Woulda’/Coulda’…”

Bibbity, Bobbity…Boo…

The GOP may talk a big game about “Less Goverment/Less Spending”…and then spend like a drunk sailor on shore leave (like all politicians do…)

When faced with what this country was facing…you seem to forget that McCain was suggesting budgets not much different from Obama’s in terms of total spending…

Mufasa

nail on the head.

Let’s be real. All we are going to hear is about piddley little earmarks that are just spending money already allocated. We will hear about tax cuts without any meaningful reduction in federal spending.

We will not hear about welfare reform.
We will not hear about social security reform.
We not hear about closing any of the 700 military bases we have overseas.
We will not hear about any meaning full reform in excessive regulation.
We will not hear about reigning in an overreaching judiciary.
We will not hear about the 4th arm of gov’t. The unelected regulatory army that acts as legislator, police, judge, jury, and executioner.
We will not hear about protectionist tarrifs and subsidies.
We will not hear about restoring states’ rights.

The rest of it is just fucking noise.[/quote]

Outstanding, D!

Have you guys noticed that ALL politicians…GOP, or DEM alike…don’t even discuss the “Gorrilla-in-the-Room”, Social Security.

It’s problems are so daunting that the politicians won’t even WHISPER it…

Mufasa

[quote]tme wrote:
dhickey wrote:
you’ve got to be kidding me. nobody gives a shit about gay marriage. if this is a deciding factor in anyones vote, they are a fucking idiot.

Awesome, you just described about 80% of GW’s base. You can try and argue that getting this issue on the ballot was a major factor in 2004 for Bush, but you’d be lying and you damn well know it.[/quote]

80% of GWB’s votes were becuase of gay marriage? good one. you’re a real intellectual.

[quote]Jeff R wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
…“Shoulda’/Woulda’/Coulda’…”

Bibbity, Bobbity…Boo…

The GOP may talk a big game about “Less Goverment/Less Spending”…and then spend like a drunk sailor on shore leave (like all politicians do…)

When faced with what this country was facing…you seem to forget that McCain was suggesting budgets not much different from Obama’s in terms of total spending…

Mufasa

mufasa,

I think you need to check your facts. I could be wrong, but, I don’t think he’d have spent more than all previous presidents. Nor do I think you’ll find him voting for any of these budgets.

Find me where he advocated a 3.6 trillion budget? If he did, show me where, kindly.

I just know you aren’t going to contend that McCain would have voted for a bill that had 9000 earmarks.

If McCain was anything, he was pretty consistent 'bout earmarks.

Don’t get me wrong, McCain wasn’t my ideal candidate, but, next to this guy, he was Reaganesque.

JeffR
[/quote]

No checking needed, my friend…the facts are out there…

The whole stimulus package is one huge “Earmarks to the States”…and even though there have been a couple of “Hypocritical Mavericks” like Palin whom have got on their plywood soapbox talking about “my State won’t take this, and my State won’t take that”; everyone saw right through the political posturing, Conservative and Liberal alike.

There is NO politician that is going to fight against any significant amount of this money for their State.

And I’ll GUARANTEE that a number of these “Tea Partiers” and Obama Haters won’t turn down a good paying Public-Works job that results from this package.

Do I agree with this type of huge spending?

No.

But to get on here and think that one party spends significantly less than another…and would have facing the same issues as the current President…is pure fantasy.

Mufasa

[quote]dhickey wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
…“Shoulda’/Woulda’/Coulda’…”

Bibbity, Bobbity…Boo…

The GOP may talk a big game about “Less Goverment/Less Spending”…and then spend like a drunk sailor on shore leave (like all politicians do…)

When faced with what this country was facing…you seem to forget that McCain was suggesting budgets not much different from Obama’s in terms of total spending…

Mufasa

nail on the head.

Let’s be real. All we are going to hear is about piddley little earmarks that are just spending money already allocated. We will hear about tax cuts without any meaningful reduction in federal spending.

We will not hear about welfare reform.
We will not hear about social security reform.
We not hear about closing any of the 700 military bases we have overseas.
We will not hear about any meaning full reform in excessive regulation.
We will not hear about reigning in an overreaching judiciary.
We will not hear about the 4th arm of gov’t. The unelected regulatory army that acts as legislator, police, judge, jury, and executioner.
We will not hear about protectionist tarrifs and subsidies.
We will not hear about restoring states’ rights.

The rest of it is just fucking noise.[/quote]

Good post. Beat me to it. Anyone going on and on about earmarks is either not serious or an idiot. Earmarks are a drop in the bucket next to entitlements and defense. That is where the money goes.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Specter is a goofy ol’ fart who was so in love with his Senate seat and all the perks that go with it that he was willing to join the party that really did reflect his views.

Snowe might as well go with him.[/quote]

So let’s start a list. Who else may or should switch?

Sen. Chuck Hagel, Nebraska
Sen. John McCain, Nevada

Feel free to add congressmen and governors.

I could add another 5 or so, but who say you?

Sen. Snowe (R-ME): GOP response to Specter not constructive

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Jeff R wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
…“Shoulda’/Woulda’/Coulda’…”

Bibbity, Bobbity…Boo…

The GOP may talk a big game about “Less Goverment/Less Spending”…and then spend like a drunk sailor on shore leave (like all politicians do…)

When faced with what this country was facing…you seem to forget that McCain was suggesting budgets not much different from Obama’s in terms of total spending…

Mufasa

mufasa,

I think you need to check your facts. I could be wrong, but, I don’t think he’d have spent more than all previous presidents. Nor do I think you’ll find him voting for any of these budgets.

Find me where he advocated a 3.6 trillion budget? If he did, show me where, kindly.

I just know you aren’t going to contend that McCain would have voted for a bill that had 9000 earmarks.

If McCain was anything, he was pretty consistent 'bout earmarks.

Don’t get me wrong, McCain wasn’t my ideal candidate, but, next to this guy, he was Reaganesque.

JeffR

No checking needed, my friend…the facts are out there…

The whole stimulus package is one huge “Earmarks to the States”…and even though there have been a couple of “Hypocritical Mavericks” like Palin whom have got on their plywood soapbox talking about “my State won’t take this, and my State won’t take that”; everyone saw right through the political posturing, Conservative and Liberal alike.

There is NO politician that is going to fight against any significant amount of this money for their State.

And I’ll GUARANTEE that a number of these “Tea Partiers” and Obama Haters won’t turn down a good paying Public-Works job that results from this package.

Do I agree with this type of huge spending?

No.

But to get on here and think that one party spends significantly less than another…and would have facing the same issues as the current President…is pure fantasy.

Mufasa
[/quote]

Hey, Mufasa.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words:

I encourage everyone to look at that picture.

I want everyone to think about who the CBO is. I want you to think about the “worse than projected” GDP report from yesterday, worsening unemployment, and think about the effect on that chart.

JeffR