T Nation

Soy

If you were to eat soy regularly and take M would you you improve your T count? My reasoning is that soy increases estrogen and M would turn it into T.

wtf??

Why take soy crap protein at all? I don’t think it works quite that way! stick to whey and casien protein. Soy protein has to be the crappest ever made. I did some reading in more depth in how they were processed. Such full of crap.

Avoid soy like the plague—unless you want the hormonal profile of your sister. Any supposed “health” benefits are far outweighed by what it does to a male’s hormone profile. Do a search of T-Nation articles, and you’ll find plenty of info on soy.

While protein may be protein it seems all proteins are not created equally. The negative effects have long been touted on T-Nation and they are slowly making their way to the peer reviewed journals. There was a report on the news today that stated that an article in the Journal of the American Medical Association recently stated that for post menopausal women all the benefits that were touted for eating soy were essentially wrong. In short it didnt’ lower the risk of say cancer nor balance out hormones.

Funny how they said it was still okay to eat…just not harmful.

Check out this link.

http://www.westonaprice.org/
soy/index.html

Is it ok to consume soy on a cheat meal? I’m craving for some soybean milk…

[quote]supsaiyan wrote:
Check out this link.

http://www.westonaprice.org/
soy/index.html[/quote]

Very interesting website- thanks for the post! How’d you find this one?

Shadow

[quote]Shadow wrote:
supsaiyan wrote:
Check out this link.

http://www.westonaprice.org/
soy/index.html

Very interesting website- thanks for the post! How’d you find this one?

Shadow[/quote]

Yeah it is very interesting website and I agree with alot of the information. This guy Dr Price did amazing work but unfortunately he was way ahead of his time (his works dated 50 years ago) and the doctors thought he was on crack or something. Seminole Chick told me about it months ago. I told several people about it. It spread out to some more people but i don’t know how many or if they really agree with these stuff.

Hey, there, loz800m. Interesting question. A few things, though. Consuming soy doesn’t actually raise estrogen levels. Soy contains phytoestrogens, which are plant chemicals that act similarly to estrogen (in some cases). They bind weakly to estrogen receptor sites.

In fact, it’s been hypothesized that in cases where estrogen levels are high, by binding to estrogen receptor sites, phytoestrogens act as an ANTI-estrogen. In other cases, though, where estrogen levels are too low (like when a women enters menopause), phytoestrogens can exert a PRO-estrogenic effect, helping to normalize estrogen levels and reduce menopausal symptoms.

I’m definitely no expert on the topic. And truth be told, there are a number of phytoestrogens found in soy, some of which can have a pro-estrogenic effect and others which can have an anti-estrogenic affect AT THE SAME TIME, IN THE SAME PERSON.

The problem for me, additionally, is that soy has a number of down sides. It’s goitrogenic (interferes with thyroid function). It inhibits the conversion of thyroid hormones; i.e., T4 to T3. For guys, it suppresses T levels. And then on top of that, you’re probably already getting an overload of something called xeno-estrogesn (chemical estrogens found in plastic that are just really toxic to the body; not, not, not, not good!) Then you go ahead and add in phytoestrogens?

My best advice is that you limit soy. You’re going to get a little here and there, more than likely, and it’s nothing to worry about. However, I would not recommend it as a primary protein source.

Is there a particular reason you’re wanting to ingest soy, loz800m?

M is really an awesome product. Not only does it raise T levels by lowering E levels (which is what causes the body to think it needs more T), it also is supportive of Phase 2 liver detoxification. What does that mean to you? It means that chemical carcinogens (those nasty xenoestrogens I mentioned above, for example) that would otherwise be reabsorbed by the body are NOT reabsorbed by the body. M raises T levels and is cancer-protective all at the same time.

So as far as your question goes, the M would do fabulous things for you hormonally and healthwise, but I feel that the soy would be a bit problematic.

Questions? (grin)

[quote]Shadow wrote:

Very interesting website- thanks for the post! How’d you find this one?

Shadow[/quote]

I Google’d for info on soy and just happened upon it. Lots of good info, share it with your family and friends.

Dont mean to hijack, but while on the topic,
Are there any other studies that show defects from soy? I looked at that
Weston Price site and it metioned thryroid and other things. But it seems the big controversy here at Tmag is the estrogen factor.

Does anyone know of any studies that actually show male loss of testosterone?

All I hear about is the phytochemicals, anticarcinogens and the benefits of soy. But on this website all I hear is “You’ll grow tits!!”. I’m trying to figure out why there aren’t more studies showing low T count, when it appears that there are many studies going on with soy and phytochemicals looking to reduce cancer.

Can anybody help me out? Know of a good place to start when it comes to soy?

Hey thanks a lot for any info.

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
Hey, there, loz800m. Interesting question. A few things, though. Consuming soy doesn’t actually raise estrogen levels. Soy contains phytoestrogens, which are plant chemicals that act similarly to estrogen (in some cases). They bind weakly to estrogen receptor sites.

In fact, it’s been hypothesized that in cases where estrogen levels are high, by binding to estrogen receptor sites, phytoestrogens act as an ANTI-estrogen. In other cases, though, where estrogen levels are too low (like when a women enters menopause), phytoestrogens can exert a PRO-estrogenic effect, helping to normalize estrogen levels and reduce menopausal symptoms.

I’m definitely no expert on the topic. And truth be told, there are a number of phytoestrogens found in soy, some of which can have a pro-estrogenic effect and others which can have an anti-estrogenic affect AT THE SAME TIME, IN THE SAME PERSON.

The problem for me, additionally, is that soy has a number of down sides. It’s goitrogenic (interferes with thyroid function). It inhibits the conversion of thyroid hormones; i.e., T4 to T3. For guys, it suppresses T levels. And then on top of that, you’re probably already getting an overload of something called xeno-estrogesn (chemical estrogens found in plastic that are just really toxic to the body; not, not, not, not good!) Then you go ahead and add in phytoestrogens?

My best advice is that you limit soy. You’re going to get a little here and there, more than likely, and it’s nothing to worry about. However, I would not recommend it as a primary protein source.

Is there a particular reason you’re wanting to ingest soy, loz800m?

M is really an awesome product. Not only does it raise T levels by lowering E levels (which is what causes the body to think it needs more T), it also is supportive of Phase 2 liver detoxification. What does that mean to you? It means that chemical carcinogens (those nasty xenoestrogens I mentioned above, for example) that would otherwise be reabsorbed by the body are NOT reabsorbed by the body. M raises T levels and is cancer-protective all at the same time.

So as far as your question goes, the M would do fabulous things for you hormonally and healthwise, but I feel that the soy would be a bit problematic.

Questions? (grin)[/quote]

I think the biggest problem is the soy based baby formula. The mothers are being badly misinformed over it. They actually think it is very good when in fact it is nowwhere that good. I read somewhere that the baby is taking equilivalent of 5-6 birth control pills a day?!? There are other problems as well but it didn’t seem to faze this mother whom I know that is feeding her baby with soy baby formula even though i presented tons of information. It’s sad…

No Im not taking soy I was just wondering if taking soy and M could increase T levels instead of taking M alone. I didnt find out until later that M works by blocking the estrogen receptor sites rather than turning it into T. But it would be pretty cool if there was something that could turn estrogen into T.

Travis, try doing the following search on Google,

soy “lowers testosterone”

From there, go to PubMed www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/
entrez/query.fcgi
and do some searchs on

soy testosterone

I think you’ll find plenty on the topic.