T Nation

Soy Protein Suggestions

Any suggestions to which soy powder is best. I want to start using in combination with my whey protein and at bedtime like suggested in the article “Bedtime Story” and “Stop the Catabolic Insanity.”

INCOMING!!

Shit. I’ll get extinguisher…

I think I just went sterile.

None! You are referring to a casein protein powder if you are referencing those articles. As for soy, just do a quick search on the main site and you will see that it is not your best choice for protein due to it’s possible estrogenic effects.

I think what the guys are trying to say is Soy protein isn’t good for you and you should really read all the articles in T-mag about the evils of soy. I won’t flame you but will warn you that others probably will. DUCK!!!


:slight_smile: Groove

O man…I do NOT remember JB telling you to EAT SOY PROTEIN!!!

BTW -- duck and cover before the flame starts!

You see, when I suggest that people spend some time in the archives, it really is for their own protection. That, or they should be provided with flame retardent suits upon entering the forum.

Just to bring you all up to date on the benefits of Soy. A recent study in the Journal of Nutrition By Kurzer(March 2002), showed that men consuming 40-70grams per day of soy did not experience problems with their reproductive hormones and semen quality. There goes the comment about increases estrogen levels. In another study(Nutrition, June 2002),demonstrated that consuming 30-60grams of soy a day lowers LDL cholesterol and homocysteine concentrations–which definitely helps in preventing heart attacks and strokes and also shows that soy has a positive effect on blood vessels. If this isn’t enough for you I have the third reason to use soy. Also from the study(Nutrition, June 2002), demonstrates that diets containing soy protein may act as an ergogenic aid by preventing degradation(muscle breakdown) that interferes with muscle growth and strength gains following strenuous exercise.

The bottom line: Soy has many benefits that other proteins sources lack and it definitely should be a key part of your overall nutrition program to promote leaness, muscularity and great health.

Maybe you all need to give Soy a second look.

I think you have your articles screwed up.
Anyway I’ve got to run. My “tofutti” burger is burning…

I haven’t looked up your articles, but I’ll comment on what you’ve written.

The first study - Define “problems with reproductive hormones.” Also, tell me how long these guys were consuming this much soy. If it was short-term, it wasn’t a valid study for our purposes. Also, it’s one study. You can’t reach conclusions based on ONE study. Sorry, but you didn’t debunk anything about soy there.

The second study - So it improves your cholesterol numbers. The funny thing is that nobody has ever proven that there’s a causal relationship between bad cholesterol profiles and heart disease. Maybe bad cholesterol is simply an incidental finding in an otherwise unhealthy person. I’ve seen people with cholesterols in the 500 range live for years without problems. What I’m saying is that lowering a number in a lab test does NOT “definately help in preventing heart attacks and strokes” as you asserted. This also doesn’t say a thing about its effects on blood vessels. How you can extrapolate that from what was given is beyond me.

Third study - This isn’t a benefit exclusive to soy. Sorry, not impressed.

My last point, and I’m not trying to sound harsh, but please don’t tell me what “definately” needs to be in my diet. I’ll analyze the studies and data myself and come to my own conclusions. I understand that you’re trying to be open-minded about this, but you have to be critical in your thinking as well. Maybe you should be giving soy a second look as well.

http://www.testosterone.net/articles/185soy.html


http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_87prote.html


http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_143soy.html

Please check out the following article:


http://www.t-mag.com/nation_previous/03.html


In particular, please note the TWENTY-THREE references listed at the bottom. These references merely constitute a fraction of the myriad of studies that collectively serve as the foundation for most T-Men’s rejection of soy. Additionally, while soy may have some cardiovascular health benefits and anti-cancerous qualities, I strongly believe that the costs outweigh the benefits from a bodybuilding perspective, especially since the T-Man lifestyle includes several components of reducing cardiovascular disease risk (antioxidant rich foods, EFAs, and regular exercise). I’d also suggest that you determine who has funded the studies in question.

Soy protein is also frequently recommended to post-menopausal women because it contains phytoestrogens such as genistein and diadzen, which mimic “real” estrogen in mammals. WHy the hell would anyone interested in maximizing Testosterone levels for an anabolic effect knowingly ingest this stuff?

“A recent study in the Journal of Nutrition By Kurzer(March 2002), showed that men consuming 40-70grams per day of soy did not experience problems with their reproductive hormones and semen quality.”

This, in and of itself, is not a reason to ingest soy protein. It is also not the definitive word on soy and estrogenic side effects. Hit up some of the T-Mag articles on soy and you'll find a lot of info supporting the idea that soy is iffy at best, and detrimental at worst.

"Also from the study(Nutrition, June 2002), demonstrates that diets containing soy protein may act as an ergogenic aid by preventing degradation(muscle breakdown) that interferes with muscle growth and strength gains following strenuous exercise."

So, let me get this traight, ingesting protein may help to prevent muscle breakdown and help with strenght gains? Who woulda thunk it! Okay, so why not use one of the many sources available that we know for sure does NOT have potential estrogenic sides?

Alright alright, I have some more reading to do before I make my opinion on this topic. Some of the guys talk about using soy in combination with their other protein sources so I thought I would look into it. The first few articles I read made it sound good. Thanks for refering the past articles to me.

There are THREE articles at T-mag dealing with soy. And if half of every aricle is wrong… I still would not use the stuff! Type “soy” into the T-mag search engine on the main page.

Ahhh, Soy Protein just makes me cringe. Does anyone know the orignial purpose for soybeans? It was going to be used for a replacement for DIESEL FUEL, yum yum. The government then couldn’t realistically make enough money off of this venture and had mass lands of soybeans, so then what? Sell it to the mass market!

Boca burgers are great!

If you like terd-tasting-cardboard textured-estrogen enhancing-fake meat!

I’ll stick with my eye of round steaks thank you very much…

please tell me of even ONE article on t-mag that suggests you use soy protien. just one, that’s all i ask

Soy is not a good protein to use before bedtime (you are probably thinking about casein), and most people on this site do not recommend soy at all. However, I have looked at the studies on soy protein and have seen no conclusive evidence that soy protein is detrimental to hormonal profiles, and anabolically speaking, studies put it roughly on par with whey protein. But casein is generally seen to perform better than either one of them.