Soy foods and M

Will M block out the estrogenic effects of soy, not in minute quantities but larger quantities such as when eating tofu or soy nuts? I ask because soy is an easily assessible (and often cheap) source of protein but I don’t want any feminizing effects.

One more question, do the estrogenic effects of soy come from the protein, oil, or both? I’ve been reading the ingredients on a lot of grocery products lately and found that soy oil is a very common ingredient, even the vegatable oil I purchased (didn’t check the exact oil type at the time) has soy oil as its main ingredient.

You have to remember that the side effects of soy go beyond an increase in estrogen.

  • High levels of phytic acid in soy reduce assimilation of calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and zinc.

  • Phytic acid in soy is not neutralized by ordinary preparation methods such as soaking, sprouting and long, slow cooking. High phytate diets have caused growth problems in children.

  • Trypsin inhibitors in soy interfere with protein digestion and may cause pancreatic disorders. In test animals soy containing trypsin inhibitors caused stunted growth.

  • Soy phytoestrogens disrupt endocrine function and have the potential to cause infertility and to promote breast cancer in adult women.

  • Soy phytoestrogens are potent antithyroid agents that cause hypothyroidism and may cause thyroid cancer. In infants, consumption of soy formula has been linked to autoimmune thyroid disease.

  • Vitamin B12 analogs in soy are not absorbed and actually increase the body’s requirement for B12.

  • Soy foods increase the body’s requirement for vitamin D.

  • Fragile proteins are denatured during high temperature processing to make soy protein isolate and textured vegetable protein.

  • Processing of soy protein results in the formation of toxic lysinoalanine and highly carcinogenic nitrosamines.

  • Free glutamic acid or MSG, a potent neurotoxin, is formed during soy food processing and additional amounts are added to many soy foods.

  • Soy foods contain high levels of aluminum which is toxic to the nervous system and the kidneys.

As to your second question, I think it’s all bad. The increase in estogen comes from the isoflavones (which are phytoestrogens) contained in soy.

[quote]Wombat wrote:
Will M block out the estrogenic effects of soy, not in minute quantities but larger quantities such as when eating tofu or soy nuts? I ask because soy is an easily assessible (and often cheap) source of protein but I don’t want any feminizing effects.

One more question, do the estrogenic effects of soy come from the protein, oil, or both? I’ve been reading the ingredients on a lot of grocery products lately and found that soy oil is a very common ingredient, even the vegatable oil I purchased (didn’t check the exact oil type at the time) has soy oil as its main ingredient.[/quote]

It’s certainly an interesting concept. On the other hand, the problem is that while a great deal of soy’s negative effects are mediated via the ER, there are still many other effects which are not. Thus, taking M or anything else, wouldn’t really solve the problem.

The estrogenic effects are thought to be from the isoflavones found in soy protein. When you see things that are DERIVED from soy, I wouldn’t worry. People see “soybean oil” or “soy lecithin” or “soy sauce” and begin to go in to convulsions, but such things aren’t something I’d concern myself with.

I have a few older articles I’ve written that may be of some help:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459861

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459845

Cy:

I know that soy protein isolates are the mother of all that is evil with soy, but how concerned should I be about “soy flour” as an ingredient in something, such as a low-carb pizza crust?

Thanks in advance.

Cy Wilson-

Soybean Oil does contain trans fat and has high ratio of omega 6s to 3s. They are to be avoided as well. Soybean oil is better served as fuel for cars or whatever, not human consumption!

[quote]Tungsten wrote:
Cy Wilson-

Soybean Oil does contain trans fat and has high ratio of omega 6s to 3s. They are to be avoided as well. Soybean oil is better served as fuel for cars or whatever, not human consumption![/quote]

It’s two l’s by the way. Anyhow, it’s incorrect to assume that untouched soybean oil itself is full of trans-fatty acids. Rather, the hydrogenation the products undergo is responsible. Iowa State recently produced a soybean oil which doesn’t require hydrogenation to avoid rancidity, hence trans fatty acid content is negligible. I think some companies may already be using it but I haven’t kept up to date on that. I don’t avoid them nor do I advise anyone else to do such a thing unless you’re consuming large quantities, in which case, I doubt you reach this site. If I see that it’s hydrogenated soybean oil, yes, I do limit my intake though. Also, soybean oil, or any oil like it would make a poor fuel in a car. :slight_smile: The fuel used for cars is mix of branched alkanes, for the most part. That’s actually how they assess the octane rating. Heptane for example, would be the worst (octane rating of 0) as there’s no branching, whereas, 2,2,4-trimethylpentane has an octane rating of 100.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Cy:

I know that soy protein isolates are the mother of all that is evil with soy, but how concerned should I be about “soy flour” as an ingredient in something, such as a low-carb pizza crust?

Thanks in advance.[/quote]

I’ve often wondered that myself and I’m certain I had looked in to it at one point. The sad thing is I often look over things months or even years before others catch on and so my method of remembering what I found is whether I made any alterations in my lifestyle. Sad, but true. I know I’ve avoided the various soy flour products so I had to have found something that led me to avoid them.

OK yes, after doing a little bit of searching, I did find that it contained a significant amount of soy isoflavones. Although, this could vary from product to product, of course. In any event, if you want to have a low-carb pizza with soy flour once a month, have at it! :slight_smile: People forget that in order to replicate the chronic effects, you need to consume a decent amount, nearly every day, for prolonged periods of time.

Cy-

I was actually referring to the partially hydrogenated soybean oil. I know how trans fat is formed. I guess I was being too simplistic over that. Should have been more specific. I wonder just how much better the unhydrogenated soybean is or how it’s processed. Should be interesting to see how that turns out. we get enough of hydrogenated type everywhere anyway. About soybean oil as fuel for the car, I could have sworn that I read about it in the newspaper where “hippies” actually use used vegetable oil (didn’t specify which type) from resturants for their diesel engines with some kind of adapter device for that. :slight_smile:

[quote]Tungsten wrote:
Cy-

I was actually referring to the partially hydrogenated soybean oil. I know how trans fat is formed. I guess I was being too simplistic over that. Should have been more specific. I wonder just how much better the unhydrogenated soybean is or how it’s processed. Should be interesting to see how that turns out. we get enough of hydrogenated type everywhere anyway. About soybean oil as fuel for the car, I could have sworn that I read about it in the newspaper where “hippies” actually use used vegetable oil (didn’t specify which type) from resturants for their diesel engines with some kind of adapter device for that. :slight_smile:

[/quote]

They simply produced a soybean that contains little linolenic acid, i.e., 1% versus the 7% normally found. Because it contains less linolenic acid, it doesn’t require hydrogenation to prevent rancidity.

Ah, well, specifically with the diesel fuel (longer carbon-chain length), it would make more sense. An adapter of some sort would likely be necessary as well. While it (vegetable oil) still isn’t befitting of the fuel used in some aspects, it would seem it may be possible, I’ve never really looked in to it. Interesting though!

To continue an off-topic thought, if you are curious, Google biodiesel. Fuel can be “made” from used vegetable oil… I don’t believe it’s used directly.

[quote]vroom wrote:
To continue an off-topic thought, if you are curious, Google biodiesel. Fuel can be “made” from used vegetable oil… I don’t believe it’s used directly.[/quote]

Actually, they just go up to the resturaunts and get those used vegetable oils for free otherwise the owners would have to pay to have them removed! All they had to do was pour the used oil into filter and off they go in their ec0-cars!