I never called you a shitkicker, I just said that they way you choose to discuss things MIGHT lead some to believe that you are low class (and I’m not talking socioeconomically).
I hate to say that, at least in my opinion, your posts drip with arrogance and an air of superiority. Any debate with you, Rainjack, always ends in you saying something like, “You can’t even debate this with me, I know so much more than you about it’s not even funny.”
I happen to believe that your views are biased. You are part of the commericial food production system that tries to feed America dubious food that has been tainted through methods that have the almighty dollar, not health, as the major consideration. Then you try to tell me (and others) that those same products are not dangerous. Well I, for one, am shocked.
I don’t think that soy is the only plant source that has phytoestrogens it in and never said as much. (I see we’re still fond of putting words others’ mouths.) Indeed, if you do a simple search here on T-Nation, you’ll find that I’ve recently discussed the phytoestrogen content of flax seed as well.
My belief, predicated on science, is that phytoestrogens are very highly concentrated in soy and flax (flax even moreso than soy) relative to other plant sources. At lower concentrations, the cost-benefit ratio might tip more in favor of eating the plant in question (estrogens and all), but that is not so with soy and flax.
Perhaps soybean meal is not as problematic as, say, processed soy, but the point that you is whether soy is really necessary to feed to chickens at all. If your chickens are stuffed in little cages in long, corrugated-iron buildings without access to pasture, then yes soy is probably necessary. But if the chickens are free to roam in pasture and have access to insects, then their protein needs can likely be met with whey.
You accuse me of fear-mongering and I believe that you are trying to persist in the brainwashing of America. Who’s right? Perhaps we’ll never agree on that, but let’s at least try to discuss the issue without being childish.
Therefore, if you have nothing to offer this discussion other than, “You can’t even begin to debate me on this because you are SOOOOO not in the know,” then please do not even bother responding at all because that line is so tired and played out. [/quote]
So you jump from phyto-estrogens to farming practices without even so much as a commercial for a segway. I also see you completely ignored the “FFA buddy” epithet. How convenient.
I’ll tell you what. You find me a study that supports your position that feeding soybean meal increase phyto-estrogen content in chickens, and then you may have a point. Short of that - all you have is your opinion.
Yes - when it comes to animal nutrition and husbandry parctices - I am more knowledgeable than 99.999% of the people on here. That is not to brag. It is what I do. I make a very good living consulting with farmers and ranchers. If I did not know my shit inside and out - I would starve to death.
And just to correct you - my point was simply that obsessing over the fact that a chicken might be fed soybean meal is not necessary.
I do believe it was you that felt the need to start the fear mongering, and attempting to wax prophetic on the subject of how to raise chickens.
This debate is tired, and has been repeated countless times on here.
Are you not worried about phyto estrogens in cattle? Even the most grass fed of of grass fed cattle have had a steady diet of one meal or another - all of them containing the dreaded p-word.
And that brings up another issue - the whole free range, grass fed b.s. you do know that plants contain the p-word, no? So wouldn’t grass fed/free range animals be at least as dangerous (if not more so) than grain fed animals?