T Nation

Soreness = Good Effect?

hey guys lets say you work your chest and then the next day you are sore enough to feel that you worked your chest, would you say that means that you worked hard enough. thanks

You dont have to be sore the next day to have a good workout. Actually alot of people on this site will tell you its better not to be sore. In my opinion, a little sore is o.k, but i wouldnt work for it. The sorness you recieve is basically latic acid in your muscles. Im even sore from Mon. when i did back. Hope it helped.

[quote]Mike T. wrote:
You dont have to be sore the next day to have a good workout. Actually alot of people on this site will tell you its better not to be sore. In my opinion, a little sore is o.k, but i wouldnt work for it. The sorness you recieve is basically latic acid in your muscles. Im even sore from Mon. when i did back. Hope it helped.[/quote]

Nice avitar Mike…

I am not really much of a lifter. But this is my understanding: If you do lots of reps until sore, then your conclusion about lactic acid or over training seems good. But if you work to 6-8 reps/set and get sore, then the muscle is not over worked, but the soreness from the strain will promote muscle growth.

When I found this site I found myself questioning what I knew worked based on what I read here.

I quit training to failure on every set, and trying to do another rep with all my might. Also quit the post failure and drop sets, at least as often. All of which made me sore the following day.

My gains decreased and I am back to failure training and bringing the pain. Some people experience less gains with the soreness.

Each person reacts differently. Figure out what works for you.

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
When I found this site I found myself questioning what I knew worked based on what I read here.

I quit training to failure on every set, and trying to do another rep with all my might. Also quit the post failure and drop sets, at least as often. All of which made me sore the following day.

My gains decreased and I am back to failure training and bringing the pain. Some people experience less gains with the soreness.

Each person reacts differently. Figure out what works for you.
[/quote]

Pete when you stopped training to failure did you increase frequency (i.e. did you work out your muscles more times per week)?

I think it very much depends on how you define success. If you want to grow muscle I think you are going to have to challenge the muscle. No pain no gain. But if you want tone and not much of it, I suppose you could get it working light. Thats what the girls do. Even lifting light if you do reps to failure yer gonna be sore. Then you’ll get tone and definition too.

The healthy way to deal with muscle soreness is Glutamine.

I am presuming your primary goal is muscle gain, rather than some kind of strength sport.

I can’t speak for others, but the programs that have caused me to gain muscle fastest have also been the ones that made me really fucking sore.

This is yet another case of ‘you have to find out what works for you’. Some guys are like me and grow best on programs that make them really sore. But I’ve also known guys who never get really sore and have made good gains. You have to experiment and pay attention to how your body reacts to different things.

my goal is to just have a strong healthy muscular body, i am 47, 6ft tall and 187 lbs. i have gained 10 lbs of muscle over the past two months and dont really wish to gain much more, but the reason for my question was because i read that if you are sore the next day after a workout then you worked out to hard, but i find i like being a bit sore the next day.

when i work my legs i am sore for about 2 sometimes 3 days after but when i am working my legs i work them to failure each set which i think is the proper way to work out, if i stop when i am doing an exercise and have energy left to do more then why would i stop.

[quote]MichaelOH wrote:
I think it very much depends on how you define success. If you want to grow muscle I think you are going to have to challenge the muscle. No pain no gain. But if you want tone and not much of it, I suppose you could get it working light. Thats what the girls do. Even lifting light if you do reps to failure yer gonna be sore. Then you’ll get tone and definition too.

The healthy way to deal with muscle soreness is Glutamine.[/quote]

i’ll tone you!!!

the measure of a good workout is progress, which is where keeping a good log comes in. like hinted to above the point of not getting as sore is to be able to increase training frequency.

you should get less sore as you progress as your body adapts. you should also use some recovery techniques, ie, post workout nutrition, contrast showers, ice, stretching, foam roller work, etc.

oh, and forget the L-Glutamine.

From what I have read here, there’s no direct correlation between muscle soreness, and progress.

You might say that they are both side effects of hard work. But you can have one without the other… they don’t necessarily go hand in hand.

Soreness can also be a sign of bad preparation, IMO… for example, lack of sleep or poor nutrition going into the ‘soreness causing’ workout.

It doesn’t always mean progress.

[quote]Brad61 wrote:
From what I have read here, there’s no direct correlation between muscle soreness, and progress.

You might say that they are both side effects of hard work. But you can have one without the other… they don’t necessarily go hand in hand.

Soreness can also be a sign of bad preparation, IMO… for example, lack of sleep or poor nutrition going into the ‘soreness causing’ workout.

It doesn’t always mean progress.[/quote]

The key point is that there are two paths to sore muscles that have different outcomes. One is lower strain high reps that exhausts the muscle’s energy stores and can lead to carbolic processes where the muscle eats itself. That is over training. Then there is the soreness from higher strain lower reps that challenge the muscles without deep exhaustion. This results in local production of growth factors, growth of muscle cells and increased numbers of muscle cells. Muscle growth requires that one consume proteins to fuel the process.

I was under the impression that after the first few weeks of a program soreness was to be avoided if possible.

My understanding of it was that the soreness was caused by damaged to the muscle fibers and the calcium storage cells. It was from this damage that excess calcium leaks into the muscle and causes the proteins to break down more than one actually wants and they become inflamed and thus sore.

Once that this was initially done (first few weeks of lifting) the muscles should develop protective proteins to protect against future such soreness.

[quote]enzo59 wrote:
my goal is to just have a strong healthy muscular body, i am 47, 6ft tall and 187 lbs. i have gained 10 lbs of muscle over the past two months and dont really wish to gain much more, but the reason for my question was because i read that if you are sore the next day after a workout then you worked out to hard, but i find i like being a bit sore the next day.

when i work my legs i am sore for about 2 sometimes 3 days after but when i am working my legs i work them to failure each set which i think is the proper way to work out, if i stop when i am doing an exercise and have energy left to do more then why would i stop.[/quote]

So you’re happy with the results of your training program and you like the way it makes you feel. You’re done. It’s your body and your life. Screw what other people say. Trust your experience more than other people’s theories.

thanks happy dog, are you sore the day after a workout. i took your advice you game me in my other post and that new routine is working great. i am still training with the low reps for the next two weeks and have noticed a big difference in my strength, so thanks for that.

[quote]tpa wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
When I found this site I found myself questioning what I knew worked based on what I read here.

I quit training to failure on every set, and trying to do another rep with all my might. Also quit the post failure and drop sets, at least as often. All of which made me sore the following day.

My gains decreased and I am back to failure training and bringing the pain. Some people experience less gains with the soreness.

Each person reacts differently. Figure out what works for you.

Pete when you stopped training to failure did you increase frequency (i.e. did you work out your muscles more times per week)?

[/quote]

Hey TPA, not I did not increase frequency. Same number of days.

I may or may not have DOMS depending on where I am in a training cycle. I’ll get DOMS every time I do heavy negatives, but I usually only do negatives once a month, if that. If I do a century set (100 reps), I usually won’t exactly be sore the next day, but I’ll be aware of the muscle group I worked. I had DOMS a lot more in my first year.

happy dog, when would you do a century set, is that something you would only do once in a while and for example if you did it on a bicep day would you only do 1 set of 100 reps for each exercise. i suppose its a good way to really shock the muscles