T Nation

Soreness = Exercise Effectiveness?

I’ve been experimenting recently with different lower body exercises.

None has left me as (almost) cripplingly sore for days than doing the 1 legged romanian deadlift.

Surely that’s proof that soreness is not a good indicator of how well an exercise has broken down your muscles - because few people would say that the 1 legged romanian deadlift is an effective exercise for hypertrophy…?

So is it possible I’m just getting all the soreness without any of the muscle-building benefits?

On the converse note, barbell hip thrusts leave my ass extremely sore whilst in between sets. However, there is no DOMS at all the following days. Does that mean the exercise is doing nothing in terms of hypertrophy?

Well, when’s the last time you did a hip extension based movement (i.e. SLDL, RDL, GM, etc)? Because if you haven’t done them in awhile, you’ll get sore no matter what you do.

Secondly, a one-legged RDL may be effective at first but eventually you will get stronger, and you will have to increase the weight to progress. You’ll soon get to the point where you have to use some heavy ass DB’s, good luck stabilizing that shit on one leg while hitting your hammie effectively. Might as well stick to the good 'ol barbell rdl/sldl.

I don’t think soreness translate effectiveness. Greater the stretch more soreness like the SLRDLs and barbell hip thrust has minimal stretch in the movement so less DOMS.

in this case i would guess that you havent quite done a movement that requires the muscle cordination of a one legged romanian deadlift, and thus the muscles are being taxed in a new way, leading to soreness, but not necessarily implying growth. however, if you work to increase the load to such a point where you do facilitate growth it will be in ‘new’ areas due to the fact youre using a new movement pattern you have not tried to ‘grow’ on before. This is all ‘bro science’ theroy anyways.

In my opinion, being sore is good way to know what target muscles you hit, even if you dont get DOM, when i do some soft tissue work on myself, i can usually tell for example wheather the upper, lower or inside part of tri’s got hit the hardest, wheather my upper or lower hams were taxed more ect… I use soreness as an indicator of im hitting the target area i want to hit. If i want upper tri’s, and i know inclien skulls behind th ehad make that area sore as fuck, you bet your ass im gonna use those over say cable extensions. ya feel?

While the general consensus is going to be that soreness does not indicate growth stimulation, the meat-head in me always feels like I worked hard if I’m sore the day after a training session.

(I’ll sit around at work, either flexing or posing a sore muscle all day long, with an “ow that hurts/boy that feels great” combination of feelings -lol)

S

Soreness is and is not a indication of “growth” and single leg rdl’s will lead to muscle hypertrophy (almost every training movement does) IF it’s placed within a workout/program effectively. As someone mentioned above, the stretching of the posterior chain will lead to more muscle recruitment (more stretch, more recruitment…but NOT a max stretch…“defense mechanIsms” kick in if stretch is too great to protect the body by “shutting down” the “area in crisis”)

A couple other things to consider with this specific SLRDL movement is that it’s most likely a movement you rarely do, so the “neural disruption” and stability/balance required to do the movement will activate, recruit and stimulate more overall leg musculature. Lunges do something similar. Ever noticed how sore your inner-thighs are after doing lunges? I imagine your inner-thighs were pretty sore after these SLRDL’s. Also, movements with large ROM’s that target a single limb tend to create soreness.

Moving light/moderate loads very explosively, HEAVY movements, and movements that are new or haven’t been done in a while are common causes of soreness, I’ve found.

DOMS is another animal all together. A lot of factors contribute to it…load, volume, speed of movement, etc. Plus, some muscles (specifically the legs due to their sheer size) tend to develop DOMS more than others.

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
While the general consensus is going to be that soreness does not indicate growth stimulation, the meat-head in me always feels like I worked hard if I’m sore the day after a training session.

(I’ll sit around at work, either flexing or posing a sore muscle all day long, with an “ow that hurts/boy that feels great” combination of feelings -lol)

S[/quote]

I definitely agree lol

[quote]MeinHerzBrennt wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
While the general consensus is going to be that soreness does not indicate growth stimulation, the meat-head in me always feels like I worked hard if I’m sore the day after a training session.

(I’ll sit around at work, either flexing or posing a sore muscle all day long, with an “ow that hurts/boy that feels great” combination of feelings -lol)

S[/quote]

I definitely agree lol[/quote]

Same here. It’s almost as if I seek a degree of soreness, and if I don’t achieve it, it seems I didn’t train hard enough.

However ridiculous this may sound, I did the JMR Pullovers one day, and they left my triceps absolutely devastated. I never knew such a degree of pain and soreness was possible in the triceps LOL ~

I measured my arms the next week and they were 0.2 inches bigger (newb gains ftw), but psychologically I feel like that exercise makes my triceps explode. Now that I do them all the time though, I never get the same terrible soreness, only a milder one, so it’s probably more about body adaptation and getting them in a stretched position.

Hell, if you want to feel soreness…go do 200 pushups in your room and wake up the next day.Can guarantee it probably added zero size nor strength to you,but you’re sore.Same with jogging.Jogging gives me more quad/hams/glutes DOMS than heavy squats.Soreness doesn’t indicate anything tbqhimho

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
However ridiculous this may sound, I did the JMR Pullovers one day, and they left my triceps absolutely devastated. I never knew such a degree of pain and soreness was possible in the triceps LOL ~

I measured my arms the next week and they were 0.2 inches bigger (newb gains ftw), but psychologically I feel like that exercise makes my triceps explode. Now that I do them all the time though, I never get the same terrible soreness, only a milder one, so it’s probably more about body adaptation and getting them in a stretched position.

Hell, if you want to feel soreness…go do 200 pushups in your room and wake up the next day.Can guarantee it probably added zero size nor strength to you,but you’re sore.Same with jogging.Jogging gives me more quad/hams/glutes DOMS than heavy squats.Soreness doesn’t indicate anything tbqhimho [/quote]
200 in one go? Never got sore from that.

Haha you must do pushups,anything you do you get adapted to obviously,but lots of people would get sore as hell going and doing 200 pushups =p you knew what I was trying to say haha

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Haha you must do pushups,anything you do you get adapted to obviously,but lots of people would get sore as hell going and doing 200 pushups =p you knew what I was trying to say haha[/quote]
Not anymore. No need. Most people wouldn’t be able to get 200 done short of spreading it out throughout the day. By that point, it’s not close to the same thing. And yeah, I know the point you were trying to illustrate. I was just being a dick and trying to get some attention.

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
However ridiculous this may sound, I did the JMR Pullovers one day, and they left my triceps absolutely devastated. I never knew such a degree of pain and soreness was possible in the triceps LOL ~

I measured my arms the next week and they were 0.2 inches bigger (newb gains ftw), but psychologically I feel like that exercise makes my triceps explode. Now that I do them all the time though, I never get the same terrible soreness, only a milder one, so it’s probably more about body adaptation and getting them in a stretched position.
[/quote]

Same thing happens to me all the time. Last time, it was after doing Meadows’ partial DB laterals. Never had medial delt soreness like that before, but since that session I haven’t experienced soreness from these.

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Haha you must do pushups,anything you do you get adapted to obviously,but lots of people would get sore as hell going and doing 200 pushups =p you knew what I was trying to say haha[/quote]
Not anymore. No need. Most people wouldn’t be able to get 200 done short of spreading it out throughout the day. By that point, it’s not close to the same thing. And yeah, I know the point you were trying to illustrate. I was just being a dick and trying to get some attention.[/quote]

luuuvvvvv youuuu

hows that? is that what ya wanted? little whore…

[quote]bignate wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Haha you must do pushups,anything you do you get adapted to obviously,but lots of people would get sore as hell going and doing 200 pushups =p you knew what I was trying to say haha[/quote]
Not anymore. No need. Most people wouldn’t be able to get 200 done short of spreading it out throughout the day. By that point, it’s not close to the same thing. And yeah, I know the point you were trying to illustrate. I was just being a dick and trying to get some attention.[/quote]

luuuvvvvv youuuu

hows that? is that what ya wanted? little whore…[/quote]

I thought you only did pistol squats for leg development?

[quote]alternate wrote:
I’ve been experimenting recently with different lower body exercises.

None has left me as (almost) cripplingly sore for days than doing the 1 legged romanian deadlift.

Surely that’s proof that soreness is not a good indicator of how well an exercise has broken down your muscles - because few people would say that the 1 legged romanian deadlift is an effective exercise for hypertrophy…?

So is it possible I’m just getting all the soreness without any of the muscle-building benefits?

On the converse note, barbell hip thrusts leave my ass extremely sore whilst in between sets. However, there is no DOMS at all the following days. Does that mean the exercise is doing nothing in terms of hypertrophy?[/quote]

I’m fairly certain that a regular RDL would make you just as sore. All your pistol squatting didn’t develop your posterior chain, and that’s what a proper RDL stimulates. Soreness has nothing to do with progress. It just happens when your body is recovering from some shit it has never done before. Personally, I think soreness is mostly your body attempting to stop you from doing shit while it recovers. But I’m not a fucking scientist.

As far as progress goes: you need to do it for awhile before you decide whether it works or not. That’s what I hate about bodybuilding and muscle growth. There’s so many factors to keep track of, it would drive me nuts to give a shit about how I look. That’s why I just pick up heavy and heavier stuff and hope I’m not fatter 2 weeks later.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLWmJ5wyF-I

OP - why do you want to train for bodybuilding by doing 1 leg RDL, BW pistol squats, and barbell hip thrusts? Do you not have access to a gym? What is the reasoning behind not training bodybuilding in a more conventional manner?

How much hypertrophy can you expect from doing this stuff?

And if you ‘want to stay functional’ / ‘don’t wanna get too big’ then how come you have chosen to post all this in a bodybuilding forum and not a fitness forum?

It doesn’t make much sense, but maybe you have been seriously injured or can’t join a gym or something?

[quote]yolo84 wrote:
OP - why do you want to train for bodybuilding by doing 1 leg RDL, BW pistol squats, and barbell hip thrusts? Do you not have access to a gym? What is the reasoning behind not training bodybuilding in a more conventional manner?

How much hypertrophy can you expect from doing this stuff?

And if you ‘want to stay functional’ / ‘don’t wanna get too big’ then how come you have chosen to post all this in a bodybuilding forum and not a fitness forum?

It doesn’t make much sense, but maybe you have been seriously injured or can’t join a gym or something?[/quote]

Got a sacro-iliac joint dysfunction - was told I need to find ways of lower body training without adding weight to the spine

^^why didn’t you start out with this usefull bit of information? You could have saved yourself a ton of grief in your pistols thread.