T Nation

Sore and Aching All the Time, 5 Months In

I wanted to post this to see if this is a transitory problem. I workout 6 days a week; weights every other day and spinning on off days. About 1.5hrs on weightlifting and the same spinning give or take. One day rest. This doesn’t seem to be too much versus people who go to the gym every single day and lift weights every day (which I used to do without the soreness and aching). Now that I’m on TRT I’m sore and aching most days… especially in the morning. Just doesn’t seem right.

My labs were high at first blood test 8-12 weeks in (which are posted in an older post) so I dropped from 40mg EOD to 32mg EOD. Test Cyp intramuscular (mostly thighs and some glute injections). No other supporting TRT treatments. No drugs except for a little MJ at night here and there. No alcohol, diet is clean. 46M, ~155lbs, 5’10". My next labs will be done at the end of this month.

It could be the dumbells I’m using; it’s quite different working out with them and they put a significant amount of strain on the whole body. They’re adjustable and max weight is 50lbs each. Doesn’t seem like too much. Since the gyms aren’t open, that’s my only choice right now with an adjustable bench. But something tells me that maybe my Testosterone and/or estradiol is still too high. Not quite sure and I guess I won’t know until my next blood test.

Thank you in advance for your experiences and feedback.

How high was “high” before?

I doubt it. Weightlifters use(d) testosterone and other anabolic steroids in part because you recover better from training with less pain and soreness, so you can do more volume and do it at a higher intensity. Too high is not going to make you sore following workouts. Regarding E2, if that is low, yes, joint aches and pain are common. This is especially typical with bodybuilders who will use aromatase inhibitors to reduce estrogen so they look lean and shredded. Higher E2 is better for your joints.

Interestingly, when I was competing heavily, we were sore most of the time. The only time we really felt good was the week prior to competitions when we would reduce volume and %s to peak. We figured if we weren’t sore we weren’t working hard enough. However, there is such a thing as over training and, of course, injury, which may be part of the issue.

It’s more likely due to your change in exercises. Dumbells stress the body in ways that are different from a barbell or machine. You may need more time for your body to adapt to the change.

I have posted about this before. I think that it is like becoming a new lifter all over again. When I really overdid it as a teen I would be sore, which I would relieve by doing the same exercise again the next day, which made DOMS even worse on day 3, so I would do some more reps of it, ad infinitum until I hadto miss a day and suffer like hell. I went years training my ass off for Strongman and no DOMS. Of course, looking back, I also have labs showing low test. I am still getting sore, but not as bad as I was. I think it is increased work and maybe actual growth that I wasn’t getting with low test.

Testosterone 50.7 (8.4 - 28.8 nmol/L)
Free T 1103 (196-636 pmol/L)
SHBG 47.4 (10.0 - 70.0 nmol/L)
Estradiol 329 (<162 pmol/L)
TSH 1.49 (0.32 - 3.00 miu/Li)
FT4 10 (9-19 pmol/L)
FT3 5.7 (2.6-5.8 pmol/L)
Prolactin 13.4 (4-19 ug/L)
Hematocrit 0.465 (0.400-0.500 L/L)

When in the week were you tested in relation to your injection day? These are impressive figures for 120 odd mg/week.
Maybe the soreness is just your body getting used to the different/more strenuous training.

I blood tested before my dosage on dosage day in the morning. Ya things are / were / maybe still are a little high so possibly I’m sensitive or I’m still producing some of my own? Not sure.

Tested before or after injecting? We’re trying figure out if that’s a peak value or trough or somewhere in between

Tested before injecting.

M46, 5’10", 155lbs, Intramuscular Test Cypionate, 32mg EOD, no other supporting injections / pills.

So I just got my 2nd blood test back 8 weeks after my dosage reduction (40mg EOD --> 32mg EOD). It looks like my Estradiol and my Testosterone has dropped but not by much and they are still pretty high.

I’m still not feeling normalized / great; some fatigue, soreness (but I think it’s from using dumbells), agitation / irritability, quick to anger, and my sleep is still broken up during the night. Some of these could be due to something else but I’m not sure what. I have seen some gains; exercising 6 days a week; one day cardio, one day lifting. Diet is clean. No drugs / alcohol. No major stress at this point except for broken sleep.

It also looks like my Free T4 is trending downwards (pituitary problem?) and Hematocrit is trending upwards. Let me know what you think… Thank you in advance for your experiences and insights.

I am wondering if I should lower my dosage yet again and if so, by how much?

Feb 6th 2020 (before Testosterone)
Total T 11.7 (8.4 - 28.8)
Free T 139 (196 - 636)
Estradiol <40 (<162)
SHGB No Data
TSH 1.41 (0.32 - 4.00)
T4 13 (9 - 19)
T3 4.2 (2.6 - 5.8)
Hematocrit 0.449 (0.400 - 0.500)

April 21 2020 (first blood test 8 weeks 40mg EOD)
Total T 50.7 (8.4 - 28.8)
Free T 1103 (196 - 636)
Estradiol 329 (<162)
SHGB 47.4 (10 - 70)
TSH 1.49 (0.32 - 4.00)
T4 10 (9 - 19)
T3 5.7 (2.6 - 5.8)
Hematocrit 0.465 (0.400 - 0.500)

June 22 2020 (second blood test 8 weeks 32mg EOD)
Total T 43.0 (8.4 - 28.8)
Free T 974 (196 - 636)
Estradiol 277 (<162)
SHGB 40.9 (10 - 70)
TSH 1.89 (0.32 - 4.00)
T4 10 (9 - 19)
T3 4.8 (2.6 - 5.8)
Hematocrit 0.490 (0.400 - 0.500)

Supplements / Vitamins I take periodically (not every day unless noted) during the week:
Probiotic (every day for digestion)
Diatomaceous Earth food grade (every day for digestion)
B Complex
C 1000mg
D3+K 5000mg
Sometimes Magnesium Malate
Sometimes Zinc
Sometimes E
Sometimes Multi
Sometimes B2

Not sure why my previous post was locked / closed. Hopefully this one doesn’t realize the same fate as I’m really looking for some help here… I removed the vitamins / supplements list I’m taking in case that was the problem. Anyway… I’ll try this again.

M46, 5’10", 155lbs, Intramuscular Test Cypionate, 32mg EOD, no other supporting injections / pills.

So I just got my 2nd blood test back 8 weeks after my dosage reduction (40mg EOD --> 32mg EOD). It looks like my Estradiol and my Testosterone has dropped but not by much and they are still pretty high.

I’m still not feeling normalized / great; some fatigue, soreness (but I think it’s from using dumbells), agitation / irritability, quick to anger, and my sleep is still broken up during the night. Some of these could be due to something else but I’m not sure what. I have seen some gains; exercising 6 days a week; one day cardio, one day lifting. Diet is clean. No drugs / alcohol. No major stress at this point except for broken sleep.

It also looks like my Free T4 is trending downwards (pituitary problem?) and Hematocrit is trending upwards. Let me know what you think… Thank you in advance for your experiences and insights.

I am wondering if I should lower my dosage yet again and if so, by how much?

Feb 6th 2020 (before Testosterone)
Total T 11.7 (8.4 - 28.8)
Free T 139 (196 - 636)
Estradiol <40 (<162)
SHGB No Data
TSH 1.41 (0.32 - 4.00)
T4 13 (9 - 19)
T3 4.2 (2.6 - 5.8)
Hematocrit 0.449 (0.400 - 0.500)

April 21 2020 (first blood test 8 weeks 40mg EOD)
Total T 50.7 (8.4 - 28.8)
Free T 1103 (196 - 636)
Estradiol 329 (<162)
SHGB 47.4 (10 - 70)
TSH 1.49 (0.32 - 4.00)
T4 10 (9 - 19)
T3 5.7 (2.6 - 5.8)
Hematocrit 0.465 (0.400 - 0.500)

June 22 2020 (second blood test 8 weeks 32mg EOD)
Total T 43.0 (8.4 - 28.8)
Free T 974 (196 - 636)
Estradiol 277 (<162)
SHGB 40.9 (10 - 70)
TSH 1.89 (0.32 - 4.00)
T4 10 (9 - 19)
T3 4.8 (2.6 - 5.8)
Hematocrit 0.490 (0.400 - 0.500)

The tricky thing about dosing is it’s not linear, you kind of just have to guess and hope for the best. I would try 25 EOD unless you still want to be dialing in several months from now.

The way I see it is your T4 was higher and T3 was lower and is based on metabolic demand.

Here it’s the opposite, T4 is lower and T3 is higher which means you are converting more T4->T3. So everything is probably the same just the balance between T3 and T4 have changed.

You can’t expect hormones to remain static.

So there’s really no chance of anything dropping lower than it already is after 8 weeks? 25mg EOD seems low but I guess everyone is different in this regard.

You levels might change in the months to come by a little, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

You need to base everything off you, not someone else.

It was merged with this similar thread you started less than two weeks ago to also discuss your bloodwork and issues.

Keeping the info in an ongoing thread, especially when it’s essentially the same topic (dialing in your protocol, adjusting to sides, etc.), is more effective and lets guys give offer better overall info since there’s more context to work with.

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If my estrogen were as high as yours I would be exhausted. Both high and low estrogen also screw up my sleep.

Thanks… I’m hoping by lowering my dosage again that some of these things fall off. I’m moving to 25-26mg (hard to hit the line all of the time) EOD and we’ll see what happens.

That’s what I figured… homeostasis is specific and I’m not even sure you can achieve that 100% with TRT. Anyway…moving to what’s been recommended and will check back here in 8 weeks / after my next blood test.