Sore All Over Again Each New Cycle

I’ll make this as short as possible.

week 1- end up extremely sore all over, barely mobile from neck to calves.

week 2- just the right amount of non crippling soreness.

week 3- virtually no soreness after any workout.

week 4- deload no problems.

next cycle

week 1- back to square one with extreme soreness.

I’m not quite sure what causes this, any thoughts? At 175 lbs I eat well over 200g of protein a day, plenty enough fats, and plenty of carbs. To show my protein, within a day I’ll have 4-5 whole eggs, 3-4 slices bacon, 8 cups of milk, 4 scoops of whey, 8-10 ounces ground beef or sirloin steak, 6-8 ounces ground turkey, plenty of natty pb, and other trace sources.

As well, I foam roll at least twice a day, do the whole agile 8 / jump rope warmup stuff, and stretch some after lifting as well.

I’m sitting here right now at the end of my 5+ week and my calves are quivering, hamstrings barely able to allow me to bend over, back destroyed, and shoulders feel beat to crap. Could it be my deload is TOO much of a deload, thus causing me to be detrained some in a sense? I’m not really overly worried, just wondering why it feels like I’m always starting over again with this every single cycle.

It might be more useful to tell us what your assistance work is rather than telling us where you get your protein. I don’t know any Wendler template that has you work calves.

Lifting weight makes you sore. Welcome to training.

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Lifting weight makes you sore. Welcome to training. [/quote]

Is there something more magical about the 5 week than the 3 or the 1 that causes this?

the most pertinent question at this point would be… is it working? are you getting stronger?

[quote]DAVE101 wrote:
It might be more useful to tell us what your assistance work is rather than telling us where you get your protein. I don’t know any Wendler template that has you work calves.[/quote]

Ha well yes I know, calves don’t get too sore, just trying to make a point. However, after enough hill sprints or sled drags they can get fairly sore.

Assistance is nothing too out of this world.

squat day i’ll do maybe 2-3x10 rdl’s at around 225-250 lbs (510 max), 2-3x10 hanging leg raises, then sled drags or hill sprints

bench day- overhead press 2-3x10 / db rows 2-3x10, maybe another conditioning session

dl day- 2-3x10 squat at 185 (435 max), 2-3x10 hanging leg raises, then sled drags or hill sprints

press day- bench 2-3x10 at 115-125 lbs, pullups galore

[quote]cubuff2028 wrote:
the most pertinent question at this point would be… is it working? are you getting stronger? [/quote]

of course, i was merely wondering what the correlation between coming back from the deload week and starting the 5+ week was in relation to being crazy sore all over for the entire week. and if training in general makes you sore as jim said, why is it i barely feel anything soreness wise on my 3 and 1 week? I wasn’t born yesterday, I know training makes you sore, I’ve been training for some sport since I was 11 in a manner that causes soreness. My question was within why it is like groundhog day every time 5+ week comes around.

I’m always the most sore after W1 too and yeah, I think it’s at least partially related to the deload and the comparative lack of recent stress on the muscles. Could also be our bodies respond differently to the slightly higher volume of W1.

In the past I’ve found creatine helps enormously and now find the same of Plazma.

[quote]Saeufer wrote:
I’m always the most sore after W1 too and yeah, I think it’s at least partially related to the deload and the comparative lack of recent stress on the muscles. Could also be our bodies respond differently to the slightly higher volume of W1.[/quote]

It would be easy enough to test whether it is the deload or the higher volume. (i) Eliminate the deload between two cycles and see if you still get sore on the 5+ week. (ii) Alternatively, switch the 3+ and the 5+ weeks to see if you get sore on week 1 (with the 3+ volume) or the new week 2 (with the 5+ volume, now without coming right off a deload).

Either of those should help you at least narrow down the cause and may lead to a simple way to improve the situation.

[quote]revchad wrote:

[quote]Saeufer wrote:
I’m always the most sore after W1 too and yeah, I think it’s at least partially related to the deload and the comparative lack of recent stress on the muscles. Could also be our bodies respond differently to the slightly higher volume of W1.[/quote]

It would be easy enough to test whether it is the deload or the higher volume. (i) Eliminate the deload between two cycles and see if you still get sore on the 5+ week. (ii) Alternatively, switch the 3+ and the 5+ weeks to see if you get sore on week 1 (with the 3+ volume) or the new week 2 (with the 5+ volume, now without coming right off a deload).

Either of those should help you at least narrow down the cause and may lead to a simple way to improve the situation.[/quote]

You’re probably right but I just put up with it. As Jim says, lifting makes you sore and in the end, it’s a good sore.

Same here with the soreness on 5s week but it’s whatever you know. The program works.

I have added an extra day between Squats and deads on 5s week if I haven’t recovered enough to pull. That’s helped in the past.

[quote]lifter85 wrote:

[quote]cubuff2028 wrote:
the most pertinent question at this point would be… is it working? are you getting stronger? [/quote]

of course, i was merely wondering what the correlation between coming back from the deload week and starting the 5+ week was in relation to being crazy sore all over for the entire week. and if training in general makes you sore as jim said, why is it i barely feel anything soreness wise on my 3 and 1 week? I wasn’t born yesterday, I know training makes you sore, I’ve been training for some sport since I was 11 in a manner that causes soreness. My question was within why it is like groundhog day every time 5+ week comes around. [/quote]

if it ain’t broke… have you ever heard of old time lifters using the expression, “softening up for gains” ?

[quote]cubuff2028 wrote:

[quote]lifter85 wrote:

[quote]cubuff2028 wrote:
the most pertinent question at this point would be… is it working? are you getting stronger? [/quote]

of course, i was merely wondering what the correlation between coming back from the deload week and starting the 5+ week was in relation to being crazy sore all over for the entire week. and if training in general makes you sore as jim said, why is it i barely feel anything soreness wise on my 3 and 1 week? I wasn’t born yesterday, I know training makes you sore, I’ve been training for some sport since I was 11 in a manner that causes soreness. My question was within why it is like groundhog day every time 5+ week comes around. [/quote]

if it ain’t broke… have you ever heard of old time lifters using the expression, “softening up for gains” ? [/quote]

no

[quote]lifter85 wrote:

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Lifting weight makes you sore. Welcome to training. [/quote]

Is there something more magical about the 5 week than the 3 or the 1 that causes this?[/quote]

magical no, mathematical, YES, I’m fixin to nerd this up like a mother so apologies in advance…

week 1 , 2, 3 use 85%, 90%, 95% if you follow the standard % progression. Lets say your squat 1 RM is 405. That gives one a 365 TM. So for the sake of an easier discussion, say you just get the requisite reps, 5 3 and 1 respective to their weeks… here’s what the volume looks like on the work sets.

Remember this is a 365 TM…
Week 1
65% - 235 x 5= 1175#
75% - 270 x 5= 1350#
85% - 310 x 5= 1550#
total volume is 4075#

Week 2
70% - 255# x 3= 765#
80% - 290# x 3= 870#
90% - 325# x 3= 975#
total volume is 2610#

week 3
75% - 270# x 5 = 1350#
85% - 310# x 3 = 930
95% - 345# x 1 = 345
total volume is = 2625#

now, i have found that IF my 1RM’s are what I say they are I typically get 9 reps on the 5 week, 7 reps on the 3 week and 5 reps on the 1 week. That would bring the total volume for me to 5315# /3910# / 4000# respectively. As you see the ‘5’ week is a significantly higher volume. I tend to prefer 3/5/1 and only do the requisite reps on the 5 week to help balance things out a tad bit more. plus add in the down sets and or Jokers to challenge myself.

[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:

[quote]lifter85 wrote:

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Lifting weight makes you sore. Welcome to training. [/quote]

Is there something more magical about the 5 week than the 3 or the 1 that causes this?[/quote]

magical no, mathematical, YES, I’m fixin to nerd this up like a mother so apologies in advance…

week 1 , 2, 3 use 85%, 90%, 95% if you follow the standard % progression. Lets say your squat 1 RM is 405. That gives one a 365 TM. So for the sake of an easier discussion, say you just get the requisite reps, 5 3 and 1 respective to their weeks… here’s what the volume looks like on the work sets.

Remember this is a 365 TM…
Week 1
65% - 235 x 5= 1175#
75% - 270 x 5= 1350#
85% - 310 x 5= 1550#
total volume is 4075#

Week 2
70% - 255# x 3= 765#
80% - 290# x 3= 870#
90% - 325# x 3= 975#
total volume is 2610#

week 3
75% - 270# x 5 = 1350#
85% - 310# x 3 = 930
95% - 345# x 1 = 345
total volume is = 2625#

now, i have found that IF my 1RM’s are what I say they are I typically get 9 reps on the 5 week, 7 reps on the 3 week and 5 reps on the 1 week. That would bring the total volume for me to 5315# /3910# / 4000# respectively. As you see the ‘5’ week is a significantly higher volume. I tend to prefer 3/5/1 and only do the requisite reps on the 5 week to help balance things out a tad bit more. plus add in the down sets and or Jokers to challenge myself.
[/quote]

Sums it up perfectly. Good post.

And by putting it that way by looking at volume, I’d be surprised/disappointed is I did NOT get sore after week 1.

The real question is: What is your goal?

Strength? Better cut out all that conditioning your doing. It’s way too much.

Conditioning? Better just do the main lifts and little to no assistance work.

Listen to your body. Start slow and add things as your body can handle them. Up your work capacity over time. Take your time. Be patient. Rome wasn’t built in one day.

Don’t take a de-load unless you need it.

I have been doing 5/3/1 since late August to break a year and a half bench plateau, and I am pleased with the sourness that I finally get from working out. I know I will be sore the two days after bench day, and it feels amazing.

[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Don’t take a de-load unless you need it.

[/quote]
Wrong. Run two cycles back to back, then deload. 6 weeks on, 1 week deload. 6 weeks on, 1 week deload. Build success into the plan and then LEAVE IT THERE.

[quote]dez6485 wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Don’t take a de-load unless you need it.

[/quote]
Wrong. Run two cycles back to back, then deload. 6 weeks on, 1 week deload. 6 weeks on, 1 week deload. Build success into the plan and then LEAVE IT THERE.[/quote]

Now I know this guy has it right…