T Nation

Someone Is Full Of It...


Somewhere in this forum someone posted this routine:

Louie Simmons says that if you go above 90% in the same movement for more than three weeks that you will lose strength in that movement; hence the switching up of max effort routines every 3 weeks or so.

This routine goes for weeks on end doing above 90% of the same movement. Someone is full of it and I don't think that it is Louie...


No one's full of it, you just have to take Louie's statement in context, which you obviously haven't. Louie is talking about powerlifters who lift LARGE weights. And not only large weights, but weights in excess of their non-shirted 1RM. For most good benchers, 90% of their competition shirted max would be well over 110-120% of their raw bench.

Now it's becomes apparent why Louie said this. Of course lifting supermaximal weights week in and week out will burn you out.

Also, I don't appreciate you calling Kelly full of it, especially when you did so without even taking a minute to really look at the situation. Next time you want to call someone out, at least make sure you have a good reason for doing so.

Thanks. :slight_smile:


I should also note that I went from 225 lbs on the bench press to 305 lbs by training above 90% twice a week for two months. It didn't burn me out. The only side effect was that I got a lot stronger pretty damn quickly.


I think it has to do with level of strength as to whether or not you can handle very high percentages of your max or not. Say a beginner benches 200x1 and does a few sets of 180 he will probably feel ok. Ask a 600 lb bencher to do 540 for some sets and that's a whole different ball game.


I love it when people always back stuff up by saying, "Louie Simmons says (insert random statement here)". He is a genius when it comes to training for powerlifting. Does that mean whatever he says is written in stone and applies to all other lifting populations?

I'll answer it for you.....NO.


That workout looks pretty standard for an intermediate lifter. It applies a sensible progressive overload schedule to the bench press.

Whats the big deal?


i don't know Kelly but while i don't like the workout personally for technical reasons(and who cares what i think if you like it because it will work well for newbies), the msot timportant thing which he writes and i love is that you can't train your BP and uppe rbody like he descrines most do and expect results.

Good rule: If you wouldn't apply the workout you are doing for BP to legs stop doing it.

To each their own.

and LS is a genius who walks the walk.



Exactly. Is Louie brilliant, yup. One of the best in the world.

Is his way the only way? No.

Look at the Russian IPF lifters and Wade Hooper, they rarely go above 90% with Sheiko and tey're doing just fine (but like oh mi gosh that's SOOOO not westside!)

Look at Brad Gillingham. One of the top US SHW's. He trains with a lot of 5x5's and beltless work. He's pulled 800+ something like 30-40 times I think at this stage.

Tradtitional western periodisation worked for years before all of this. Hell, it STILL works.

I keep saying this but people are WAY too quick to jump on the westside bandwagon. Of course it works. It works damn well. I just hate to see people becoming a slave to one particular training style and not giving others a shot.


I just thought I'd throw in that Kelly Baggett is a legit expert. Vertical jump is what he is known for, though.


Ok, so........is there anyone that has shit themselves from it? Has anyone lost a meet because of it????

Damn, I guess not.


Louie Simmons also says constantly that "Everything works, but nothing works forever." Of course that routine will work for people. Even reading westside articles they advise other forms of training from time to time which is why I personally beleive that they are so great, Louie, Dave Tate and all the rest know that there are many ways to get strong, just as long as you are still getting strong.


I think it's great that you see alot of peopel woh've trained at westside have now modified the program so much it doesn't even look like westsid eanymore. I'm thinking specifically of Jiw W and Mike R, from reading their logs on Elite.

Personally, I've stolen a few things from Louie and put it all together to find something that's working incredibly well for me. I do one "main" exercise on my bench day, but it's not a max effort one, it might be 3x5 or 1x5, I try to improve the weight each week and change it every 2 or 3.

I follow wth either tri's or chest, then shoulders, back, pushdowns. THen there's eiher a second day with an emphasis on speed or heavy shoudler work. Close enough to the basic template, but so bastardized it would be wrond to call it such.

Everything works, but nothing works forever is a really great way to sum it up.


I'd take Hanley's and KBC's advice regarding training over your's, Caesar, anyday. At least they have put it on the line and actually gone out and competed. You're the one that comes off as an internet warrior, JC. No one really cares that you think some it article is bullshit.

And no one really cares how much of Louie's nuts you have in your mouth. Maybe you need to go lift a few weights and learn some things through experience rather than through the internet.


Nice job dude. And let me just say for myself as far as the esteem in which I hold Louie, he is something else. To do what he has done, both the lifts he has made and the lifters he has helped, for as long as he has is incredible.

Of course, I dont know why Julie seems to like him since louie uses powerlifting gear and steroids, which Julie has eaten up enough bandwidth here wringing his hands over.

Julie, I've met Louie Simmons, I've spoken with Louie Simmons and you, sir, are no Louie Simmons.


The good the bad the ugly.

Good lifts

unfortunately its bad that you have people talking shit about what they don't know, instead of just arguing their point.

Anything you said before that would've been smart and common sense was probably overlooked. Now that you state your numbers you can recommend some numbnuts to eat 2twinkies and a vegatable at every meal, squat every day twice a day to add 200 lbs to their bench and they will believe you.


Did anyone else notice this HUGE jump in weight?? You went from 225 to 305 in 2months? Uhhh maybe someone can open my eyes but I don't know anyone who has jumped up that high in 2months.


That was when I first started training. I hit about 10-15 singles at 90% in the bench press and then went to do pull ups, rows, and tricep extensions. I did that twice a week for 2 months and added 5 lbs to the bench press weight each session.

After that point, I kind of stopped lifting weights for my upper body. I've been training for around 2 years now and have only trained upper body for about 4-5 months total.

As a sprinter, I need to keep my weight down and most resistance training makes me blow up within a couple of weeks. Before this track season I included upper body work for about a month and gained 10 lbs, which killed my long jump.

Also, if you think that's amazing, this spring I took my front squat from 205 x 5 to 285 x 4 in the span of a month. Getting strong and gaining muscle has always come easily for me. Unfortunately, speed is not so easy to come by.


He has a whole bunch of huge jumps in a lot of different posts. I think he said he's just a genetic freak.


As far as getting stronger, yeah I'm a genetic freak (good CNS and lots of white fiber). When it comes to my sport though (sprinting) I really suck (my PR is 11.90). I'm working on it though, but Alaska's climate isn't really helping me any.


It's believable. I know a guy who is like 5 feet 8, 165lbs at the most and he can bench 315 for 5 and he has no physique to speak of at all.