T Nation

Some Words of Encouragement to Get Dialed In?


#21

I feel the difference within a few days or so. I started with .25mg twice a week but didn’t feel a thing. This is all while keep my test dosage the same.

I then upped it to .50mg twice a week and started feeling better. I just don’t want to crash it, which apparently is easy.

Yes, arimidex will just cut down on the aromatization of test to estrogen. It won’t clear anything. That’s where DIM and cruciferous veggies can help. But if you’re dosing the AI, I’d leave the DIM alone. Too many moving parts.

I know when my e2 gets high as I don’t sleep well, and my anxiety gets worse. Also brain fog a bit…

About a day or two after switching to .50mg of Ai, I am getting great morning wood. Better than my normal. I just don’t want to sink e2 either. It’s tricky.


#22

It’s good to speak to someone who’s on the same journey, I’m glad you chimed in.
As you mentioned, I don’t want to crash my E2 either which is why I’m starting slow (0.25 e3.5d), there is room to increase dosage once I get tested in a few weeks.
I’m glad you mentioned the same symptoms of high E2 as me, I thought I was going insane, I guess all these hormones are causing me problems. I will let you know as and when I start to feel improvements (hopefully)


#23

The anxiety I get presents itself in me being more snippy and less easy going. More worrisome I guess.

I also see my physique become less defined. I’m a big gym rat so I notice the differences in musculature. Nothing changes, except the e2 level going down from Ai.

I do an eod test protocol when keeps my levels steady, but also puts my e2 at 49, which for me I think is high. I’ve lowered test dosage, but then I don’t feel the effects of the test as much. So right now, Ai it is.


#24

I thought and EOD protocol would keep E2 under control, it just goes to show we are all different!

My anxiety is I worry about everything until it makes me sick. 10 times worse since starting TRT.

I am still unable to hit the gym, I have had undiagnosed low T for 20 years, I have deteriorated over the last couple of years to the stage where I have been unable to train without it wiping me out for days after. (Chronic fatigue)

I’m patiently waiting for my energy to return before I hit the gym again. It’s been a terrible couple of decades for me, spent thousands on different medical treatments with no success, then finally found out I had got T levels of a 90 yo man, finally getting treatment!


#25

Sounds like me.

In my early 20s my libido vanished. I talked to my Dr about test levels and it tested just above the lowest range, so I was “in range”. I’m also a bodybuilder, so I think he thought I was looking for gear (not true).

Well I suffered for years, and now, being 40 and consistently testing low, in the 150-300 range, he let me get on it. It’s been about 2 years now and still trying to figure it out.

Switching to eod made my e2 rise oddly. I switched due to my lowish shbg level, thinking it would help with e2.

There is no shame in getting some Viagra from your Dr or online. I buy it online and it’s extremely cheap that way. It’s odd, I get great morning wood, but just not with my gf. I don’t seem to be able to get aroused very easily, triggering the wood.

I have tried a few prescriptions for libido, like bupropion (love it for energy, but keeps me up at night) and selegiline (didn’t work, although I may not have taken a high enough dose).

I am currently taking low dose buspar, which actually gives me a tiny bit of libido. So I’m experimenting with it. There is a new med for women named Addyi which is similar to buspar. Addyi is only for women, although I intend to ask my Dr about males using it too when I see him next. It works on lowering serotonin levels.


#26

Expectation need to be realistic, progress is measure in 6-12 months with the latter being more likely. You will be making small changes to your TRT protocol for the next several months to dial in.

Onset of effects of testosterone treatment and time span until maximum effects are achieved


#27

Yeah lately I have been struggling with ED and bizarrely PE, everything just seems so sensitive down there since starting treatment. I’ve been getting really down about it but then keep reminding myself that my hormones are all over the place at the moment and I need to get everything levelled out, hopefully things will improve given time.
My libido has improved but it’s heightened all the senses, it seems I get far too excited (not had a libido for years) and things can end quickly, good that I’m up for it, bad that it ends too soon!

I have just started Remeron for anxiety and sleep, 15mg and just upped the dose to 22.5mg last night, I can’t feel it lifting my anxiety yet so just need to play around with dosage, this has no sexual side effects apparently.

The doc suggested swapping for Paxil as he thought this would help with the anxiety and the PE, it’s used off label for PE but I am reluctant to go on an SSRI, I would rather play it out with the TRT and see what happens. I have been using half a viagra for the time being to keep me up!


#28

Yeah so I gather, I’m in it for the long haul, no turning back, I just gotta get this right mate, my life has been miserable and I want to give my two daughters a dad that will be there for them, not bed ridden with fatigue and anxiety.
Thank God I found this site and thank you for helping me feel more positive, great little community here


#29

… I’m not at the morning wood stage (yet)


#30

Beware that most antidepressants destroy sex drives and cause ED. Anxiety by itself can cause ED as the stress can interfere with hormones.

If you have been injecting the same dosage for more than 6 weeks or you injection frequency is too far apart causing levels to fluctuate, low libido and Ed can be expected especially if levels are swinging. Factor in the time it takes for TRT to work.

I never had erections injecting every 3.5 days, erections began when I started injecting EOD since I metabolize testosterone quickly and have somewhat lower SHBG.

Odds are you won’t need those drugs once TRT starts to work. TRT has made me calmer as long as estrogen is well controlled.


#31

I will take all that on aboard. The remeron is not part of my long term plan, just for the here and now for sleep. I am pretty sure my high E2 is causing anxiety, insomnia and sexual sides effects, I’m gonna get dialled in with the help of you guys and drop the remeron


#32

From what I understand and theorize (at least with myself) is that high estrogen causes higher serotonin levels. Serotonin is responsible for delaying orgasm and sex drive. Dopamine is what you want.

So the remeron may affect things. I would certainly think Paxil would too (negatively).

Buspar, at least when I started it, may me orgasm twice in a row with my girlfriend. Something totally foreign to me. AND (sorry too much info) I shot a far distance each time. Usually my recovery time from sex is a good day before I’m ready again.


#33

Unfortunately buspar isn’t available in the UK, or not what I know of. If high E2 makes orgasm delayed then I wonder why I am suffering with PE at the moment?! Wow this shizzle is complicated!!


#34

I don’t know.

I know increased serotonin causes delayed orgasm as it’s an “inhibitory” neurotransmitter.

“Serotonin” attaches to different receptors that do different things in the body. Some increase PE. Some delay. Some inhibit erection. It’s all quite complex. Google and research 5ht1a receptors.


#35

I was just Googling dopamine drugs but all I can find is Wellbutrin/bupropion, which is not available in the UK.
I was actually just thinking, the PE reared it’s head occasionally last year after I had stopped taking cymbalta for 8 years, maybe this threw my hormones out of whack too


#36

I’m gonna try and get dialled in first and see where it takes me …


#37

Lowering doses AND adding arimidex?

You are asking for trouble and extending your dialing in period.


#38

Hi, thanks for chiming in.
Because I take Sustanon, I’m not sure that 0.2ml every 3.5 days will make much difference to the 0.3ml I was taking every 5 days as it has long acting Esther’s, this is all that’s available to me in the UK.

My E2 is really high and I’m having symptoms which is why I wanted to try the arimidex low dose, I can’t continue feeling this bad.

I am really mixed up now and I don’t know what to do for the best :-/


#39

You increase the odds of successfully lowering estrogen even more by injecting more frequently, estrogen will likely be lower the more frequently you inject. So estrogen will more than likely be lower on EOD v.s on an twice weekly protocol and even lower on a daily.

I know Sus has multiple esters, but it has to matter regardless of the ester.

The best is daily, but is a commitment. There have been others on Sus on an EOD protocol and it works for those guys, so I don’t see it not working on a daily protocol.

It’s all in the math, less testosterone injected, less conversion of testosterone to estrogen.


#40

Hey, hi again.

Just wanted to let you know that I have been on my new protocol for just over a week:

T 50mg E3.5 days
AI 0.25mg at the time of the injection

I have felt calmer and I have started to sleep a little better, erections are good and anxiety not as bad. As mentioned before I was having high E2 symptoms with my E2 at 57.

I know it’s very early days but what I don’t want to do is crash my E2 with this protocol. Obviously I have some E2 to clear from my system and I won’t be aromatising any more T with the AI in place ( I think )

I had my bloods taken yesterday and labs should be available next week, I’m not sure how 1 weeks treatment with an AI will show on the labs. Please understand that I had to take the AI as I was in a terrible place, I couldn’t wait another 6 weeks for the lower dose to level things out.
Ideally I don’t want to take the AI.

If you were me, where would you go from here regarding the AI and potentially dropping it,
would you wait to see the labs and go from there or just drop the AI altogether and do things like drink warm lemon water daily instead?

Just for the record, I really don’t want to do EOD shots, 2 a week is enough for me.

I am hoping with new lower dose T more regularly will keep the E2 in check without the use of an AI, I just don’t know when to drop it and if there will be a rebound of E2.

This stuff is far too complicated and I’m tieing myself up in knots - the horror stories surrounding tanked E2 on this forum are really causing me some panic.

Any advice would be appreciated.

(just to add, I enquired about Test Enanthate but unfortunately all that is available to me is the Sustanon 250)

Thanks